Quote: (frogbear @ 20 May 2009, 11:04 )
I see that the Demiurge discussion has continued yet this one has stopped. I thought they would work in concert with each other...
No more views on the stubborn rule? I believe that it effects more than one army list for the future of fan lists. It would be good to get agreement on developing towards a final ruling for such a trait.
the discussion is not concluded, however I have articulated in as many ways as I can think of that Jaldon and I put a considerable amount of thought into how to move forward with the concept of "Stubborn" through the various iterations of Epic to the current representation and we agreed that this rule needed playtesting, like the rest of the list.
All of the ideas that have been put forth are still useful to us and the community, but without some proof that "Stubborn" is not as it is currently written...
The key problem in these discussions has been does stubborn have any effect in an assault? By tradition it did. Our opinion is that current effect is very mild in comparison to several other suggestions.
keep in mind that the prior version of the Demiurg list gave each formation a native Inspiring ability, that was seen as too abusive giving them an automatic advantage in combat. I agreed. At that point any other rule that would give modifiers prior to the die roll are equally suspect and not what we should be discussing as it will lead to the same conclusion.
As much as I appreciate the recylcing of useful ideas, I also have misgivings about using anything that affects hackdown hits (ignoring, counting twice or saving throws) as those rules were meant for the Space Marines which have very small formations. The Demiurg and Squat lists typically have larger formations and enhanced survivability when losing assaults is a problem too.
As far as this having long term effects on other armies and future development, what are you referring too? Does stubborn exist in another racial profile?
