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Need Help

 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:02 pm 
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Here is some info already gathered over at this site
http://z15.invisionfree.com/The_Great_C ... wtopic=816


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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:50 pm 
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Nice find centurion :) I wonde rhow the wings "fold" when landed? I allways imagined it like the wings of the F-14 Tomcat.

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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:05 am 
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With it being so briefly described so far, we could easily each have an idea of what it should look like and each be different though (and everyone’s guesses could be proved wrong if later one is described in the HH books). Are you seeing this as a particular commission for you personally CAL001, or is O-man hoping to produce a Stormbird model for more general sale? I know you suggested it, but, if the latter, could people generally not have input and more of a consensus look be made? (if consensus be possible on such a thing!) If a good looking Stormbird could be made I’d love to buy one(s), it’s just a tricky thing to do justice to and I'd just want it to be done well.

My favourite of the models, drawings and computer images from this thread so far is the Deviant Art one, mostly because it’s the only one that actually looks like a Space Marine design of vehicle, however it doesn’t really look like that much like a Stormbird – where are the wings that can sweep forward in a hawk like sort of way? Also the vaguely BFG-esque front pram is weird too – it should have a cone nose, the lower part of which could come downwards as a ramp IMO. They’ve very much kept and changed the wrong bits of SM aircraft design.

I’m really not a fan of the look of the old VTOL Ultramarines dropship – it doesn’t fit the Stormbird’s description or look anything like any current Space Marine craft (I know it’s an older design but still...), if you loose the VTOL bits – which should definitely go for a Stormbird – which take up a lot of the art, then with the perspective you’re really not left with much to go on anyway and I don’t think the graffitied nose, rear fins or ramp are anything to write home about. I reckon starting from scratch, with the description and borrowed design tropes from other modern SM flyers would be better IMO.

I like some features of Warmaster Nice’s model and sketched one, but overall don’t think the design is how it should be done (sorry WMN!) – your sketch in particular looks like a modern day plane, not a SM void/air capable craft. I’m also particularly not liking the idea of having that angular crate thing below to carry – IMO it should be a big sleeker craft that carries its troops/vehicles inside its main body. To be fair as a conversion/scratch build it’s great and thumbs up to you for making it! It’s not what I think a designed Stormbird should ideally look like.

Hmmm... I wonder if I could ask my friend - who’s on good terms with Dan Abnett - to ask him what they look like, or possibly if there’s ever any chance of a slightly more detailed description ver popping up (without fully saying what it was for). Not sure if I’d want to ask my friend though, or he’d want to ask Dan, or if we’d get a response.

My personal my vague off-hand musings and ideas for what it could look like would be a little more hawk/bird-like, sort of. As in a sleek, vaguely cylindricalish, centre section, that could open either end. Then with two massive high up wings coming from the middle to the middle-of-the-back of the craft, sleek and curved and vaguely birdesque and which, when looking down on the vehicle when swept forward in flight, would look a little bird-like in profile, or in some way. Googled up a not that great quality picture of a hawk on the internets, which sort of illustrates what I mean, though not all that well - I was imaging wings rotated rather more forward than that and also somewhat less deep, but it was the best I could find.


Phew... too long a post! I can has waffle.





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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:06 am 
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Well I think the CGI Stormbird concept pic looks fine to me ... However ... based on the "fluff"  it may be a BIG Bird if made in resin.    And again, here's another case of G/W's fluff is spoken in "Orwellian New Speak " ...  The novels just come up with stuff almost randomly ... and in many cases, are not supported by the models in the inventory or are created and have nothing to do with the current rules or iteration of "fluff" ...  Like I said, Orwellian New Speak ...  Every iteration of Epic rewrites some of the fluff ... or the novels' authors take a very liberal view of "poetic license" ...  IMO ...  :D

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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:36 am 
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This just keeps getting better, thanks for the list of consolidated hints from the books, they are a great help. It seems we all have opinions on what it should look like, so I concur with Glyn on making multiple submissions and going from there. That is if this is now a community project. My initial goal was to give O'man a starting point for a commission for my rather large IW army. However now given the interst of this group I think it has wider arcs now.

Ó'mans thoughts on size and costing of said aircraft would be interesting at this point. A resin bird I am sure is the best way to head. Composed of a number or parts, fuselage, wing, tail, weapon systems.

One other question for the Yenmonger while I am at it, have you thought to cast resin payloads for aircraft as yet? We have a number of lists now where we see aircraft with variant loadouts to what is produced. My example being the Close Support and Saturation Bombing Thunderhawks. The FW models come with space for pylons and armamanet, may be an idea, with a potential to cross over into AI.

Cheers
Aaron


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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:49 pm 
You know, it never really crossed my mind. It seems like a fun thing to do. Why don't you start another thread, and put in some links and/or pictures. I'll post pictures of my doodling there.


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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:03 pm 
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Centurion beat me to it by posting our Stormbird discussion from the Great Crusade forums - I think we have all the 'canon' references in there. As far as my own personal opinion, I viewed the layout of wings/fuselage to be something like this (a very basic playaround in Paint combining the B-1 and C-130 Hercules:

The wings mounted towards the front of the aircraft, but being able to be extended or swept/folded back seems to match the frequent references to being 'hawklike' and like 'a bird of prey' as welll as their ability to fold into the fuselage. Due to the amount of ordinance the wings carry (rockets, cannons etc) I would imagine they would be mounted to the top of the fusselage - plus that also helps reinforce the birdlike layout. This is a horribly basic attempt, of course (wings need to be larger, shape of the fuselage should be different etc) but hopefully it should get across the basic layout that I inferred from its novel descriptions.





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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:12 pm 
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based on those descriptions, I've got some ideas I'll try to sketch up later tonight. I kind of see it following a patter somewhat like the new IG dropships on the cover of their new codex.

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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:46 pm 
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More concept pics would be cool ! :cool: But I'm still a fan of the blue CGI concept pic ... 8v)    So post awaaaaaaaaay ! :ace:




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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:05 pm 
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After reading through those descriptions I've come up with this. Obviously not super detailed but I think it captures the overall shape and appearance.

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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Interesting concept Vaaish. Can't wait to see more.

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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:33 pm 
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Vaaish that looks good needs something different with the nose i think but looks good, keep going  :grin:

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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:58 pm 
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I'd envisioned the nose tapering more as it went forward but I think the perspective messed that up and in keeping with the typical imperial look modified the nose to have more of a beak like a hawks. Also wanted to see if I could make the craft sleek and retain some of the features of the STC styling from the tunderhawk. I'm also thinking about adding a ridge similar to the thawk down the centerline of the back and I've not decided about adding a tail of any kind.

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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:07 pm 
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Nice design ...  about how big would the wing span be and aft to tail ?

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 Post subject: Need Help
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:50 pm 
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257ft/78.3m from wingtip to wingtip and 158ft/48.15m from nose to tail if my estimation of a 6' man is correct.




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