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Epic: Siege v1.12
Chroma
 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.12
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 2:44 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 07 May 2009, 14:41 )

It was never meant to be too different from the Siegemasters, just a variant defensive siege army, which was more balanced.

To me, that's even worse, as it's an attempt to "over-write" an existing army.  

Yes, Barans is unbalanced, but I really don't think this is the way to fix it.  Why not make the Mossinians a siege army that is *different*?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.12
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 2:52 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 07 May 2009, 14:44 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 07 May 2009, 14:41 )

It was never meant to be too different from the Siegemasters, just a variant defensive siege army, which was more balanced.

To me, that's even worse, as it's an attempt to "over-write" an existing army.  

I'm not intending to overwrite anything ; People will still have their superior Siegemasters army list if they want to win all their games.

Yes, Barans is unbalanced, but I really don't think this is the way to fix it.  Why not make the Mossinians a siege army that is *different*?


Other than a few different formation sizes and 0-6 upgrade choices, your proposal isn't really all that different.

Really, it's a defensive PDF force that uses Siege tactics, it's never going to be particularly different to the Siegemasters. The nature of the force is dictated by the background.

Yeah you could change the sizes of the support formations to prevent popcorning, etc, but it's still going to be a defensive siege list with most of the same unit choices, making the list marginally different...

...and I'm not going to re-write the background to make them Khorne-worshippers or something.  :))




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Chroma
 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.12
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 2:57 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 07 May 2009, 14:52 )

Other than a few different formation sizes and 0-6 upgrade choices, your proposal isn't really all that different.

Yes, but it *is* different... same units, different organizational setup, which, in my opinion, is a way varient armies work.

Heck, I'd even go with BlackLegion's suggestion of bigger Infantry/HQ Companies... make them the same number of units as Steel Legion Companies, but using "siege infantry" instead.  That would make for a different army as well.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.12
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:13 pm 
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I think that any irritation on the part of the Epic players with the 'duplication' of the Siegemasters list will be reflected in how many people are willing to pre-pay for the book.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.12
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:25 pm 
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Final thought before I put out v1.13 ; If I take away fearless from the Preachers, what about replacing it with infiltrator, representing their eagerness to close with the enemy and attack them in close combat?

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.12
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:46 pm 
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If the background shows thet their democracy is a state of reason then why not call the Preacher "Iterators" instead? All who have read the Horus Heresy novels will remember them :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.12
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:53 pm 
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Quote: (Rug @ 07 May 2009, 15:39 )

If we're droping fearless may I suggest using Zombo's proposal/theory- it seemed pretty sound (1 per 300pts).

Indeed.

Did you consider using the Sabre platform instead of the Blitzen? Just another difference possibility (as some people still want to see more).


I hadn't considered that and... it'd make a good fit wouldn't it?
It even has a Cadian style trooper as the gunner.

Stats would be something like:

Type: Light Vehicle
Speed: Immobile
Armour: -
CC: -
FF: 6+

Weapon:
Twin Autocannon - Range 45cm, AP4+ / AT5+ / AA5+


Ie: It's somewhat worse than the Blitzen.

Adding it will put the publication back by a few weeks as I'll need to order and paint a model for the picture, regardless of how quickly we balance it.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.12
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:56 pm 
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Quote: (Rug @ 07 May 2009, 15:54 )

Quote: (BlackLegion @ 07 May 2009, 15:46 )

If the background shows thet their democracy is a state of reason then why not call the Preacher "Iterators" instead? All who have read the Horus Heresy novels will remember them :)

Very cool.... I like that.

I like it.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.12
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:01 pm 
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Adding it will put the publication back by a few weeks as I'll need to order and paint a model for the picture, regardless of how quickly we balance it.


The only reason to push the publication is to hit the tournaments with a bulk shipment and that boat has sailed.  IMO the big focus should be getting groups of different players to try out the list multiple times and posting batreps.  Rug's help is valuable, but it would be vastly more helpful if there were batreps and opinions from his opponents that other people could reflect on.  The same thing goes for everyone else.

I can promise that I'll try it out in our group when the tourney is over.  I have some 'trenches' from Chroma that will work just fine. :agree:

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.12
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Quote: (Moscovian @ 07 May 2009, 16:01 )

The only reason to push the publication is to hit the tournaments with a bulk shipment and that boat has sailed.

There's still six weeks before the London Tourney ; if we can lock the last few issues down within two weeks, I should think we can still make it?

Rug's help is valuable, but it would be vastly more helpful if there were batreps and opinions from his opponents that other people could reflect on.  The same thing goes for everyone else.


It would indeed.

I'd like to see some Death Korps testing done too.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.12
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:27 pm 
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I'm worried that 125pts is too cheap, plus the pack size is three models not four.

How about junk it as a Support Formation and allow it only as an upgrade (presumably with Land Crawlers included in the upgrade)?




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