Indeed I'm normally loath to include them too.

The 'counts as two upgrade slots' is a good idea too.

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What about the Hellhound?

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If it causes massive problems I may rename it.

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What's the issue with 25 point upgrades?

To the "Preacher/Priest/Zealots" thing, how about, as a Support option, or a "Special":

0-1 Rebel Zealots - Four to Eight "Zealot" characters at +xx points each.  Any formation may add a single Zealot character, but they must first be assigned to all Companies in the army before any are assigned to Support formations.

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They're min/maxy, open to abuse by Powergaming.


To the "Preacher/Priest/Zealots" thing, how about, as a Support option, or a "Special":

0-1 Rebel Zealots - Four to Eight "Zealot" characters at +xx points each.  Any formation may add a single Zealot character, but they must first be assigned to all Companies in the army before any are assigned to Support formations.

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Why not call it an "Armoured Hellhound"? Put the armour to 4+, the speed to 20cm, and removed the Heavy Bolter, in relation to the "usual" Hellhound.

This would also allow modellers to covert "current" Hellhounds to this use.

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Doesn't that depend on the option allowed?  I've hardly found the +25 point Razorback or Sniper upgrade in Marines to be game breaking.

To the "Preacher/Priest/Zealots" thing, how about, as a Support option, or a "Special":

0-1 Rebel Zealots - Four to Eight "Zealot" characters at +xx points each.  Any formation may add a single Zealot character, but they must first be assigned to all Companies in the army before any are assigned to Support formations.

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Why call it the Armoured Hellhound if it's going to have the same armour as a normal Hellhound?

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Cuz I thought Hellhounds had Armour 5+... man, those gas tanks are *TOUGH!*  

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3+ armour does seem a little excessive on the hellhound.

As for preachers, I suggest losing fearless but increasing the numbers, say one per 300 points, so there will be a lot of leader and inspiring spread around, as befits the large number of preachers leading the men on, but no fearless, differenciating the list quite significantly from other guard lists. Not having fearless superheavies will make a definate flavour difference for the list.

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This is about the only proposed change left that I'm undecided on.

On the one hand, it *will* hurt the list's strength, protecting the BTS/SC will become especially difficult, and Super-Heavy Tanks will become much more vulnerable to Engagements.


On the other hand, increasing the ammount of Preachers may well help tip the balance back up again...


...If I put this change through, it largely invalidates the testing that's been done thus far.

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You're saying that six fearles characters (at 3000 points), two of which basically have to be in squishy formations, are all that allows this army to work?

As I said before, that seems indicative of a much larger problem.

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*All* that allows the list to work? No.

But they are a core feature of the list and removing them / changing them will have fundamental repercussions on the list.

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How do they act as a "core feature"?  The seem like a "light side dish" to me... it's the mobs of infantry and fortifications that seem like "core features"...

EDIT - and high activation count.

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Couldn't there be 2 types of priests,one Fearless and one non Fearless.

Greater/High Preacher = Commissar stats.
Lesser/Lower Preacher = as Commissar without Fearless.

With 1 greater and 2 lesser preachers per 1000 points ( 1 greater has to go in HQ maybe limit where others go).

Maybe even change the numbers allowed.