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Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!
CyberShadow	Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:30 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9350 Location: Singapore	Right. I have been... inspired! Reading through Tuffs excellent painting diary, and the realisation that the official release of Epic:A is looming, I thought that it was about time that I got at least partially organised. So, I will be following his lead, and painting a force and trying to let people here know about it. (I might even make an article out of it as well.) I hope that Tuff does not mind. Anyway, it is partially his fault as we are trying to get a game sorted out as soon as we can. First up, the small print: I dont do speed painting. That is not to say that I paint well, I just paint really slowly. Be warned, I am expecting to be adding to this thread in about a year and a half after undercoating the first batch! In addition, I have loads to paint. Current projects include: Epic Cultists, Epic Termagants, Gothic Chaos Cruisers, Generic Sci Fi Sub, Scratch Building a Warhoud, 15mm Dacians, 15mm Goblins. This does not include the multitude of blast markers, Gothic attack craft, asteroids and other terrain features. So, this is not a fast process. I just want a force that I can use by the time the game comes out. Also, this will be the only realy force that I have, so it will need to be able to take on almost anything. I will build it initially at 2000 points, and then add two blocks of 1000 points each to give a flexible army for most games. I have always gone back to Marines. I dont particulary follow them and they have never been my number one force, but they are reliable and look interesting to use in Epic:A. Most importantly, they are easy to paint, and you get less as they are more expensive! So, I will dust off the background for my old Epic Marine force, and reprise them by starting them all over again. I will try to include pictures as I go alone, but please bear in mind that this is the diary of a (relatively) normal person. I am not a talented painter, and I have a more than full time job and a a girlfriend that demands the occassional meal out/movie/acknowledgement!   I just want an army that I can use. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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CyberShadow

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:37 pm

Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9350 Location: Singapore

First up, the background. I find that it is always best to put together an idea of the background of the force before I start. It makes things more interesting and easier to plan for. Most of the background for my Marines, the Dark Talons, was littered around in one form or another. I have, however, rewritten and compiled it. Primary Colour: Dark Blue Secondary Colour: Black/Orange Relief Colour: Varies Status: Rebel Organisation: Divisions Emblem: Three black strikes Formation Markings: Varies Successor to: Crimson Fists Imperial Marine Chapter The Dark Talons are a successor chapter to the Imperial Crimson Fists, but soon after their creation they turned rebel. While the divide between Imperial Marine Chapters and those of a rebel status are often blurred, for example the numerous cases of the Dark Angels pursuing their own agenda over and above the requirements of the Imperium, the Dark Talons crystalised their rebel status during a series of actions and raids against Imperial held outworlds. However, the Dark Talons despise Chaos as much as their loyal brethren and are intolerant to most alien races. This makes their existence an isolated one, with little contact to any groups, human or otherwise, outside their own forces. In addition, while the Dark Talons retain many of the Imperial traits common to other loyal chapters, they have partially reverted to the pre-heresy organisational structure of the legion. The legion have no clear company structure, and instead are comprised of a large number of troops, well in excess of the standard 1000 of Imperial chapters, and these are subdivided into operating divisions. These divisions are created from the moment that new Marines enter the legion, and remain until the division is no longer a viable combat unit. In addition, the Dark Talons are not able to rely on the support of other Imperial forces, and so have been required to adapt their combat doctrine. They are known to raid all types of human world in an attempt to capture vehicles, supplies and equipment, and so have been observed going to war with vehicles formally belonging to PDF outposts and even the Imperial Guards, such as Hydra Flak tanks and Basilisks. These support vehicles are grouped into separate divisions to enable them to perform their role in support of the main force. With the breaking away from the Imperium, the traditional loyalist equipment was retained, along with the higher officers and command structure. However, the role of the legions Chaplain was forced to evolve the these individuals now perform the role of motivation, as in the past, along with envoy missions and tactical and strategic advice. One unusual aspect of the legion, which was apparent even before they turned rebel, is their lack of talking. They were never heard to chant devotional hymns and as a rebel legion any type of vocal communication or speech is restricted to higher officers only. This is due to the Marines having their vocal chords removed on introduction into the legion. On movement up the ranks, these are replaced by electronic synthesisers, allowing Marines of sergeant ranking and above to mimic a huge variety of sounds and noises, and to throw their voices in much the same way as a ventriloquist. While this leaves all standard Marines unable to make any vocal sounds, they are able to communicate and pass information via a series of hand gestures and via the Marine armour and its point-to-point links. It is even theorised that the legion exhibits a latent collective telepathy, but no evidence has even been found of this and it is most likely a combination of secure set of communication gestures and constant battle drilling. Perhaps inevitably, with the isolation from Imperial doctrines, the legion has developed a number of specialist formations. While the codex formations dealing with the tactical and other units remain, the Dark Talons have supplemented this specialist strike divisions and support divisions. In addition, the legion favours the clinical strikes and sudden attack and retreat methods of warfare. They are also adept at combining their attacks effectively, and co-ordinating complex strategies and feints and often the enemy is not aware of the true cause of the strike until long after the legion have withdrawn from the battle. The legion continuously adds Marines and prefers to recruit members from Hive worlds and Factory worlds, giving the legion a predisposition to lightening strikes, city and street fighting, and space boarding actions, where the skills of the Hive people are put to best use, and the legion are familiar with most types of equipment and technology along with manufacture and maintenance. This variety of equipment and sudden ferocious strikes make them very flexible and difficult to defend against. Forget about the bit that goes on about non-standard equipment and formations, etc. That is there for the future, so that I can add bits and pieces of my own devices in seperate formations for 'home play'. The initial force will be vanilla all the way. This background means that each formation or division works as almost an independent unit, and I can improvise division identification markings for each one without worry. That should make things more interesting. So, what do you think? Next up, the actual force list for 2000 points. Should be added fairly soon. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.

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primarch	Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:59 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am Posts: 27069 Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA	Hi! Great, we can call it "battle of the diaries" or "tales of two diaries". Now I await to be upstaged by the several "punmasters" on these forums.... Primarch _________________ Primarch The Primarchload Magnetized Titans Tutorial Net Epic Gold Heresy Rules
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TuffSkull

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:26 am

Brood Brother Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:49 am Posts: 2830 Location: South East UK

Quote (primarch @ 28 2003 Oct.,22:59) Now I await to be upstaged by the several "punmasters" on these forums.... I had absolutely no intention of upstaging you Peter, but the title "Duelin' Diaries" came to mind   CyberShadow Posted on 28 2003 Oct.,18:30 --------------------- Right. I have been... inspired! Reading through Tuffs excellent painting diary, and the realisation that the official release of Epic:A is looming, I thought that it was about time that I got at least partially organised. So, I will be following his lead, and painting a force and trying to let people here know about it. (I might even make an article out of it as well.) I hope that Tuff does not mind. Anyway, it is partially his fault as we are trying to get a game sorted out as soon as we can. Sorry, but I object to you stealing my format. Its clear that you're just trying to jump on my band wagon and steal the spotlight - I demand that you put a cease to this thread imediately. *waits to see if anyone's taking him seriously...* Ahhh Poohey.....   Course I dont mind mate!  And obviously its partially my fault - I thought everything was?   Cant wait to see what you get working on first. I'm really pleased to think I may have inspired someone - its the best part of doing al this I think - creating more fools like myself...... no, wait, that came out wrong.... Oh well.... _________________ Cheers, Paul "TuffSkull" T. http://hobbybrush.com - My New Website, with thousands of painted Mini Pics :) http://hobbybrush.blogspot.com - My Hobby Blog TuffSkull's notepad- My Old Blog on Wargames Wiki.

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primarch	Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:45 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am Posts: 27069 Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA	Hi! I had absolutely no intention of upstaging you Peter, but the title "Duelin' Diaries" came to mind   Well...as suspected the "comeback" was short to follow.... Primarch _________________ Primarch The Primarchload Magnetized Titans Tutorial Net Epic Gold Heresy Rules

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TuffSkull

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:03 am

Brood Brother Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:49 am Posts: 2830 Location: South East UK

Quote (primarch @ 28 2003 Oct.,23:45) Hi! I had absolutely no intention of upstaging you Peter, but the title "Duelin' Diaries" came to mind ? Well...as suspected the "comeback" was short to follow.... Primarch Sorry, its just a side effect of me being "sad" enough to be sitting here with a CD in front of me which has on it (among other "hits"   ) "Duelin' Banjos"....... _________________ Cheers, Paul "TuffSkull" T. http://hobbybrush.com - My New Website, with thousands of painted Mini Pics :) http://hobbybrush.blogspot.com - My Hobby Blog TuffSkull's notepad- My Old Blog on Wargames Wiki.

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primarch	Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:41 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am Posts: 27069 Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA	Hi! Inspiration is where you find it! By the guys, you getting all these "dairies" sent to Incoming? They'd be EXCELLENT articles. Primarch _________________ Primarch The Primarchload Magnetized Titans Tutorial Net Epic Gold Heresy Rules
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Mojarn Piett	Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:36 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:35 am Posts: 5455 Location: Finland	Hmmm. I dont do speed painting. That is not to say that I paint well, I just paint really slowly. Snail painting?    Oh, BTW, do you use Cybershading in your work?   _________________ I don't know and I let who care. -J.S.

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Shadow Hunter	Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:44 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:41 am Posts: 1747 Location: Norton Canes, Cannock, Staffs, UK	Quote (Mojarn Piett @ 29 2003 Oct.,07:36) Snail painting? ? That's just like my painting.  And I leave crappy slimey trails all over the place too!
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Tas	Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:47 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:01 am Posts: 7823 Location: Sydney, NSW	Quote (Mojarn Piett @ 29 2003 Oct.,16:36) Hmmm. Hurumph _________________ Tas My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/ My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/ My ECW Blog: http://declaresir.blogspot.com/
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CyberShadow	Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:42 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9350 Location: Singapore	[Edited previous post to include Orange as a secondary colour after consideration] Wednesday 29th October 2003 Thanks for the comments guys. I really dont want to encourage any kind of Dualing Diaries, as I know very well who would come off worse! This is more of a project with reports to make sure that I keep going. Anyone else want to do this? We could create a whole new board for painting and force assembly reports and such... A question, in the previous background, I have the battle units called divisions. Now, I realise that a division is normally a much larger unit of troops, but I cant think of anything better that is not detachment or formation. Does anyone have any idea about what this kind of scale of battle unit is called? I must admit that I never got comfortable with the combination of formations in Epic40K. I like the small units and everything from a game point of view, but I could never see a company being broken down into these fighting units for a battle. I imagined that they would either be fielded as individual squads, or as a general company. I just have this picture of all the captains standing around with the chapter arrayed in a line as they pick units... "OK, I pick George and his Assault squad." "I will take Bobs Devastators." (others sigh) "That means that I have to take Tarquins Scout squad..." Organisation and ID Right, being borderline obsessive as I am, I always need to plan my painting well in advance, in particular ID markings. I like to paint the ID on the formations so that I can tell in the heat of battle which units that retreat is centred on! For Epic40K I even had a complex system of numbering the tanks and having numbered trays. When a unit was being transported, they were placed in the numbered tray so I knew who was lost when the transport was destroyed. I will probably do this again! Division markings will usually take the form of two colours, and maybe a simple shape. Anyway, infantry is my starting point. Infantry ID will be placed on the shoulder pads of the Marines (only one per stand, the officer, not each Marine) and mostly on the doors of the tanks. ID Markings: Every infantry have at least one officer per stand/unit - Marine - Right Pad: Legion colour, Left Pad: Legion colour Veteran - Right Pad: Formation ID colour/marking, Left Pad: Legion colour Sergeant - Right Pad: Formation ID colour/marking, Left Pad: Legion colour/silver combination Captain - Right Pad: Formation ID colour/marking, Left Pad: Silver Librarian - Right Pad: Formation ID colour/marking, Left Pad: Red Chaplain - Right Pad: Formation ID colour/marking, Left Pad: Black Medic - Right Pad: Formation ID colour/marking, Left Pad: White TechMarine - Right Pad: Formation ID colour/marking, Left Pad: Yellow Commander - Right Pad: Formation ID colour/marking, Left Pad: Gold Any comments? _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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CyberShadow

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:51 pm

Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9350 Location: Singapore

Wednesday 29th October 2003 Wow, you really dont get many Marines for 2000 points, do you? That is a good thing and I am glad to see it. Anyway, I looked through the various lists and errata last night and put together a couple of lists. Here is the one that I am thinking of going with: Tactical Detachment (300) Chaplain (50) 6x Razorbacks (4 Las, 2 Heavy Bolter) (150) Total: 500 points Tactical Detachment (300) Total: 300 points Assault Detachment (200) Librarian (50) Total: 250 points Predator Detachment (2 Annihilator, 2 Destructor)(300) Total: 300 points Whirlwind Detachment (300) Hunter (75) Total: 375 points Land Speeder Detachment (200) Tornado x5 (50) Total: 250 points Total Points Cost: 1975 OK. What do you think? Are these costs right? Is it a sound force? What would you change? Thanks. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.

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CyberShadow	Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:08 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9350 Location: Singapore	Anyone there? No comments about the background or list? Can someone just reassure me that the points values are right? I suffered a minor setback last night, as I discovered that I only have a total of 8 Rhinos and 50 Marines to hand. There is a lot more, but I have to go get it out of storage. I guess that dictates what I paint first then! _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Tas	Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:17 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:01 am Posts: 7823 Location: Sydney, NSW	Not having my rules to hand, I cant say exactly on the points but they look about right. You're right- Marines are good....but expensive.  You wont get many for 2k.  Razorbacks are nice but are they worth almost 10% of your force totals?  I think not.  I'd rather scrap them and get another 3 Captains so every det has one.  Leadership is one of the main advantages of the SMs, so capitalise on it!. Also, think hard about your whirlwinds.  At 2k total, they are expesive and not highyl effective.  Personally I'd get some Devastators or another Tactical Det.  More flexible and hard to crunch.  Personally I only get such "nice to haves" over 3k totals... My devalued Aus$0.02 worth... _________________ Tas My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/ My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/ My ECW Blog: http://declaresir.blogspot.com/
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Jimbo	Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary! Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:53 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:01 pm Posts: 3495 Location: Wessex	Quote (CyberShadow @ 30 2003 Oct.,12:08) Anyone there? No comments about the background or list? I am here, but currently just waiting for the painting to begin... go on get on with it... _________________ Jimbo Felix's Gaming Pages Felix's Gaming Pages Blog Almost Always Right...
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