Okay, taking this from comments in the 5.1 DRAFT thread:

Would it even be a consideration of having the AMHC be a base of four Hammerheads for 250 points, so then it can be upgraded to the usual six for the same cost as it is now?  

That way people with "four-strong" formations of Ionheads, or what-have-you, still have a playable formation... and doesn't penalize "gravheads" either.

And the "4-strong" AMHC could always be 275 if that's really a concern.

To me, starting at a base of four units seems an answer to the people who want all tanks *and* the people who would like a smaller Hammerhead formation... imagine that, two *different* groups of Tau players happy at the same time!  *LAUGH*

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Not to steer this either way, but do keep in mind that they come in packs of 3.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Yes, which means if you start with four, you can easily have six with the upgrade... so, you've got options.

The "Hammerhead Upgrade" is just +2 Hammerheads, so you're still got a "spare" if you start with a base of six... or wish to add Hammerheads to a different formation.  (These "spares" are the heart of my desire for "variable" sized upgrades... example: with the current (?) packaging of the Recon skimmers, I've got two spare Tetras that I can't use at all.)


Four Hammerheads and a Skyray was a common formation in the pre-v5.x world... so, people, like Dobbsy, who've been fielding 4-strong formations of Ionheads would still be able to do that.

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Well, to put the alternative view, 5x HH for 325 with an upgrade of a single HH for +75, (2x HH for 125) gives a cheaper base formation than the current 375 while avoiding a 'popcorn' style HH army of 12x formations of four HH each. Part of the issue here is the relative costs of alternative formations and the 'bang-for-your-buck' questions. The 75cm railgun provides lots of long-range shots that are really only vulnerable to SM drop armies.

As an aside here, while I do understand the 'pack of 3' point, IMHO this should be much lower on the list of design criteria, especially as there is already the option of adding them as upgrades

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The peer review was cited as the reason for this change, but my reading of it is very clear that the peer review was against the HH cadre, not the support formation.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

The peer review was cited as the reason for this change, but my reading of it is very clear that the peer review was against the HH cadre, not the support formation.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Honda, can you give some guidance on how long you want the test phase to run? It would be nice to have some sort of time frame to work in.

I can´t speak for Honda, but presumably that would depend on people actually playtesting the CURRENT LISTS, not their favourite homebrew amendments, instead of arguing endlessly over minutiae.

But that´s just MHO.

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My 2 cents? Drop the cadre for this list and make 4 a support choice. Then bring back 6 as a cadre for an armoured list.

Honda, this isn't in the tech edit thread. Its in its own and we are all spit balling here. I will continue to play 5.1 once its released.

Won't stop people talking or complaining!

It takes a lot to offend me on the Internet, Honda, but you hit the button square on the mark.

What the hell does this mean?  I've posted three Tau battle reports in the past three weeks, all my comments are based on experiences *within* those games, and you've got the audacity to say I'm not focusing on "the real work"?!  I've got an Eldar vs Tau fight lined up for this evening, but maybe you don't need it now.

I certainly haven't seen any reports from you lately, in fact, the "trial lists" you've posted have been riddled with errors, so it shows a lack of playing the list properly.

Care to put your money where you mouth is?

ASIDE - MAN, what is it about developing Tau that gets everyone (even me!) so hot and bothered?!?  

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Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

However, upon further discussions, the issue came down to reducing access to Hammerheads

Chroma, please accept my apology.

I shouldn't have burned you in your thread. I should have kept my cool.

So let me express myself better. I am concerned that a lot of the debating that I see going on will distract the effort. I am especially concerned that we stay on focus and not get off the path. Given that we are not going to make any structural changes to the list until we conclude the upcoming testing phase, I personally do not understand the direction that discussions are taking.

There. That is my issue. I do want all of us to succeed.

And yes, you have been putting in solid efforts in regards to playtesting and I know that I've looked like an idiot a couple of times.

Again, my apologies.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Honda: Regardless of your opinions, we will continue to put forward ideas and spitball them throughout your testing phase. You're just going to have to live with it. Feel free to ignore it, but please stop trying to shut down every discussion, it's rude.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread