Vindicators are 150 except for PDF, and that's more to reflect rarity/limit them.  Again, when did Marines get them by the Company?

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Sorry, but that view isn't shared as of yet.

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"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

Well, I have had limited success with a hammer before... but it could backfire if used on a certain Warhead.

Ok, I understand. My course is corrected. Sorry, Zap.

I still think LR's should be priced at 200 per detachment, 600 per company, do we need to go back to 900 per terminator company or should it remain as is?

I think the parity with the cost of Pred's could be solved with making a distinction between Annihilator (Anti-Vehicle Pred) and Destructor (Anti Infantry Pred) This would change some weapon stats (slightly) but may allow them to be worth 200 points.

Would anything else need changed if this was done well?.. I can't think of anything... yet. Anyone else? I will need to remind myself of what these two units are armed with, I'm at work at the moment. Tsk, bad me.

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

I like Land Raiders being 250/3, particularly compared to Leman Russ which has worse armour, can't transport, and has ever so slightly worse weaponry. I think when Space Marine 2nd Ed. came out they had the same cost which seemed unfair.

Land Raiders are strong and should be 250 I think. Squats in general seem a bit overpowered/undercosted.

For 250 points I could squash your Land Raiders with a set of Imperial Knights... or Deathstrikes, or a Warhound, or... there is at the moment better stuff to buy at this price so they don't get used.

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Yes but deathstrike, hellhounds or knights will have a hard time to transport your troops and redeploy them later in the game. May be give the LR a try with a side armor = front armor

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Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

As Parzval mentioned before, LRs owned at 600.  They might be a bit high at 750 I guess...but I take them all the time for my CSMs and they seem decent value to me.

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Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

Hmm, I found they are too expensive for 750. Even for 600 points I would not take a LR company in every battle. But 8 VP are simply too much for 5 killed tanks.

I don't think it is a good idea to compare Marine tank pricing with the price of tanks in other armies, as every army works differently.

But looking at the marine list:

LR company: 750

Termie Company 1000

so, you get only 7 land Raiders but 13 termies for 250 points more...

this doesn't sound right...

and comparing to predators: well, those thingies have 3 attack dice, depending on who you are fighting against I would choose these over land raiders. 200 points for both is fine.

I usually value a Landraider company over a Warlord with almost any weapons. At 600 they are far too cheap, much better then Russes for the reasons already given, and cos they have better morale and no command and control issues.  The increase was very welcome to me, as other tanks suddenly seemed worthwhile.

A drop to 700 though might be ok, but it's not a big deal.

Predator company? hmm.. I vaguely remember one.. probably it's of my own making when I was adjusting things for our games.  I believe Warhead may have also fallen prey to this most unwholesome of vices  

The transport of the LR is an over rated experience, IMO. There are better ways to get units across the table like the Rhino and few people want to give LR's charge orders unless the must.

Yes, a 600 point LR company would Own (why should it not) until it broke and it would end up broken in most cases. 6VP please...

Perhaps 650 company would be a compromise... thus providing the +1VP to companies. Detachments at 225 points? And a front/side armour of 2+

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Went through Armies of the Imperium.  Predators and Vindicator companies were IG only.  Same applies for V4.1 rules.

As a wise person pointed out in one of these threads, it is also not such a great idea to start picking a list apart unit by unit and saying this one is weaker than theirs...this one is stronger.  Do that too much and you end up with 10 army lists that all look exactly the same.  Land Raiders might not be the best tank out there, but they are the best a Marine can get and I use them because of that.  People dis the Mammoth, but for the PDF it is their best tank.  Don't like LRs...take another Tac company.

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

I entered the stats in my stats calculation page and checked 10 predators Vs 10 Land Raiders:

- Land Raiders shooting at Predators: 22% destructions, 78% survive
- Predators shooting a Land Raiders: 11% destructions, 89% survive

So the Land Raiders simply have twice more chance to destroy the Predators...

Moreover, Land Raiders have a descent CAF, a predator can be easily ripped by a tactical IG stand. A Land raider could easily survive to such an attack. If you decrease the price of Land Raiders, would players continue playing Predators ?

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Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

Yeah, I would. Predators are a nice add-on against an army with a lot of stands like orcs. I wouldn't make them the sole tank of my marine army. But one detachment is always nice to have.
They have a different job than land raiders.

As it stands just now I hardly see many tanks being used in games. They are just not an attractive option anymore.

I believe Warhead may have also fallen prey to this most unwholesome of vices  

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

What would a Marine Predator Company cost?  Tech Guard pay 200 extra for a Rus company and their morale isn't as good as Marines.  700 points?  

Vindicators...probably 500 I guess.  They're not that good anyway.

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy