I have few questions about the rules that have been asked on the french Epic forum. It seems that players do not interpret the rules the same way and they asked me to ask there.

1) Snap Fire: When a unit has already discovered its FF order (so has been activited) can it snap fire ?

NetEpic Gold page 18 says:
Units on First Fire Orders: Activating a unit on First Fire Orders is usually done to Snap Fire at a moving enemy, but it may be done to gain a tactical advantage (e.g. an obvious order such as, “This artillery battery is on

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Epic40k.fr Techpriest

1) I do not use this rule as it slows the game down but if this rule must be used then I would agree that no this does not activate the unit. You have declared the units intention, the unit has still to activate.

2) From the description it quite clearly says that you can't. However, I fail to see why it is disallowed. Perhaps it is to prevent some sort of games play problem. Like snap firing on moving target as it passes another unit... maybe?

3)You make one roll for each attack just like an armour save. If it fails then it loses an SI point. If the building only had one then it collapses right then and there. If it had two or more then more hits must be caused to destroy it, in the same way. If the weapon that struck the building is listed as "Destroys Buildings" then no mater how many structural points the building has left, if it fails a roll it is gone.

Additionally... IF a building is damaged and survives to the end phase it must also make a structural integrity test to see if it still collapses. Roll a D6 and hope you roll more than the number of SI counters accrued on the building. You roll once in each end phase for each building that is damaged.

Hope this helps...  

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My head is full of War...

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Hi,

1.: Activated units cannot snap fire anymore. I also had a problem figuring this one out, and therefore my guess is, you guys are not familiar with the "pass" rule. I just found it a week ago, because it is only a very small paragraph not completely clear for newcomers imho:

Activating Units
Pick a detachment and reveal its orders, then make any desired movement. You do not have to move a unit because of its orders, but once the next detachment has been activated you may not change your mind – commanders do not have the commodity of hindsight in battle! Both players continue to alternate moving detachments until all units have moved.
You may not “passâ€Â

1. Agree with Sanjuro.  If you "activated" a FF unit to stall, that unit cannot Snap Fire...it has already been Activated.  

2. Can't.  I guess we could make the distinction between BP with an @ not being able to, but those without an @ being able to I suppose, but is it that big a deal?

3. WH has it.  Test when shot, and any damaged building must test again in every end phase.

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

So for the question about Snap Fire/Pass/First Fire Activation, this means:

- I have a devastators detachment. In the movement phase, I activate it and discover its First Fire order. My opponent charge this detachment -> My detachment can not defend by firing at the charging unit as I have shown my order.

This become quite more complicated as in the "Pop-up attack definition", it says:

"A unit making a Pop-Up attack can only be targeted by units on First Fire Orders that Snap Fire

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Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

In my group we play it as a unit that is being charged always can shoot at the charger if he is in FF. As with many other rules that had been changed it might very well be that we havent interpreted the rules correctly. But. To me it sounds strange if you cant shoot at a unit that is charging if you he knows that you are just waiting for him.

How do you others do?

I think I have to read about the "pass" rule.. - And now a few minutes later after reading it all makes a bit more sense.. I guess if you activate and show a FF order then you "pay a price". That price being losing the snap fire ability.

Another rule I have to bring to the table. Perhaps my friends are fed up on me now..

/Peter

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"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

With regards to Snap Fire, I had waaaay back when I joined asked about this with regards to Daemons and Greater Daemons charging a unit on First Fire orders also.

Does this then mean that a unit with First Fire orders that has yet to reveal those orders gets to shoot a Greater/Daemon as it attempts to engage it in close combat, all be it with a -1 to hit modifier? Doesn't this get round the Daemon special ability of not being able to First Fire a Greater/Daemon in close combat. That's a new rule mugging an old established rule surely?

Hmmm, no wonder I don't use the Snap Fire rule for units that don't have the special Snap Fire ability. It's a nice idea, in part but it just doesn't work IMO without knocking more established rules that do work.

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[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Napalm also asked about the Snap Fire on Charging Greaetr Daemon:

- You just say "my greater daemon charges"
- Opponent can try to snap fire it with whatever units in Snap Fire
- Finaly, Greater Daemon engage the unit he wants

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Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

So the answer is yes? you can get around the "No First Firing" at Greater/Daemons rule...

Well that doesn't seem right.  

Used to be you could charge into close combat and your ability to horrify your opponent would mean he couldn't fire. So this has been changed via the every unit can Snap Fire back door.

3. WH has it.  Test when shot, and any damaged building must test again in every end phase.

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

I was playing this exactly like Scream.
So it means that against a typical eldar player, you have to pass with almost all your army?
Same thing for the unit that cannot shoot at something charging it, it's totally unrealistic:
They're in first fire, prepared to shoot at something, but they cannot shoot at the thing running torward them.

And got the same questions:

I do not understand either why a unit that as revealed it's FF order could not be able to snap fire anymore. They've done nothing, you've just revealad an order.

What happens when the movement phase is over? Everything without revealated order do nothing and just sit there?
If it becomes normal first fire order, what's the point with passing? Something in first fire cannot move so it's not an inconvenient either.

Hmmm, no wonder I don't use the Snap Fire rule for units that don't have the special Snap Fire ability. It's a nice idea, in part but it just doesn't work IMO without knocking more established rules that do work.

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

No, any unrevealed orders are flipped when the unit is activated....though I guess it should be obvious what order they have so I guess not that big a deal.  (ok, just checked rules as written...should really just be "when activated" and reference to the movement phase removed.)

In my group we play it as a unit that is being charged always can shoot at the charger if he is in FF. As with many other rules that had been changed it might very well be that we havent interpreted the rules correctly. But. To me it sounds strange if you cant shoot at a unit that is charging if you he knows that you are just waiting for him.

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

So what do the rules look like without the stall tactic?

Also, again what happens to Daemons that charge against units on First Fire. -1 to hit is way better than not able to shoot but not for the Daemons. Perhaps due to the horror factor snap fire... (can we call this opportunity fire to avoid confusion with snap fire units) ...should be at a -2 to hit or something against Daemons while they move into close combat. This would only effect the unit being engaged IF the Daemon would PIN it in close combat.

It's a bit long winded, but what do you all think?

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

I would say:

- activate your daemon
- tell your opponent wich unit is the target of the charge
- the targetted unit will not be able to snap fire at the daemon
- your opponent can activate any non targeted unit to snap fire at the daemon
- if the daemon is not killed by the snap fire, place it in CC with the target of the charge

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Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

Ok, that makes sense. I'll give it a try IF I can convince the other v5 players... I'll need a length of rope, a chair, a basement and a... feather.  

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]