Hoy! Where did the Space Marines Predator Company go?!? Did some thieving crew pinch them all and sell to some local chop shop forge world? Did the Marines have to sell them off in job lots to pay for all the bullets they keep using. Boy, I thought it was just real armies that had to worry about the accountants not imaginary ones. Maybe they all got made into dreadnoughts, there are enough of them. You would think a Dreadnought from the fluff would be rare, huh.

Imperial Guard have companies of these... hey, you think it might have been them, thieving little bleeders.

Any chance the Marines can mount a recovery campaign and get these Predator Companies back?

What!.. 750 points for Land Raiders?!? They were cr(not great)ap when they were 600 points so why would I pay more?

I reluctantly I agree with the increase in the cost of Vindicators to 200 points, they are still worth the points but... what's this. They are still only 150 points for Marines?.. Inconsistent much, how much memory do you think a player can spare for this sort of detail... and again with the question... where is the company for Space Marines?

I like to use Thunderers for IG, Tech Guard etc and Vindicators only for Marines... but I must be unbalanced or something...

Razorbacks... are only available in packs of six now... ok. I can see why, but maybe I also liked sets of three also. Aren't these dearer too, I always thought they were 150 point for three... boy, nothing comes cheap these days.

Hmmm, the White Scars list... I always thought they were more about hit and run mobile warfare. The 40K Codex puts limits on heavy stuff but here I see a Company of Land Raiders!.. are you sure this is based on correct Intel on these guys?

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I think youre wrong on the Land Raiders, they owned at 600 pts. Dont know about the predators though.

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"We are the sword of fire with which the Traitors shall be cut down."

Yes at 600 they ruled. At 750 now.. Well, lets just say that I do not feel like buying them much these days. This is probably cause I was used to the 600 cost. If one compare them to other units the cost is all right. But not everything shouldn't be compared. Some units are cheaper, some are more expensive.

On the other hand the marine army is better nowadays with for example teleporting for free & armor save for the troopstands. Other armies like the eldar really got axed.  

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"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

I would be happy with Land Raiders at 600 points again. They could transport troops after all. I'll take what I can get, mate. I even be happy having them left at the 750 cost IF they were better. Lets not forget there are two lasers on each sponson side. These should combine to a 4+ to hit as well as a -2TSM as they already have... but that is just my opinion. Not comparing costs works both ways. They compared costs to chop and change them as they are now... I think in some things it was wrong.

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I tried them at +4 tohit for 750 in the last battle I played. I think they became too good. Id rather have more tanks then better tanks. And if you compare them to the predator and Russes they arent that bad.

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"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

Ok, so 600 points for a company and 200 points per detachment and no change of stats. Nothing wrong with that.

If the stats were changed though, I may be convinced at an even higher cost, but not sure what.

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I dont know what is the best solution for the Landraiders. If it was lowered to 700 it would be 7 VP instead of 8.

I think you have to factor the whole army and ask yourself - Is it too strong/weak. If there is a strong opinion in the forum that they are a really good army then why should we make them better?..

I just think that this specific unit is sorta broken as it is today.

/P-man

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"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

Ok, granted we would need to be careful. That is the good thing about posting here. It's not just my opinion that makes the change. It gets hammered out and maybe even tested.

I think you have to factor the whole army and ask yourself - Is it too strong/weak. If there is a strong opinion in the forum that they are a really good army then why should we make them better?..

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It's a company of LR Crusader that have a 25cm move They really fit well in a White Scars army.

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Epic40k.fr Techpriest

It is!.. *re-checks file, slaps forehead* Yup, they are, my mistake. I even read that twice... much to fast I admit but hey, I'm only human.

I take it you have no issues with the Land Raiders cost or stats, Scream?

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Mmmm I admit that 750 points for a company is quite expensive. But on my side, I never buy a LR company if there's no Terminators inside

Reducing the cost and you'll be on the cost of a predator, if you reduce the cost of the predator, you'll have to modify something else...and there will be a chain reaction across all codexes of all factions.

So what could we do to keep the cost and that could be applied to all Land Raider variants ?

1) past the Land Raiders to Super heavy class with the super heavy table (but they would suddenly become really hard to destroy) ?

2) give them the ability side armor = front armor, or all around armor ?

3) To-Hit 4+ for the standard version ? But you'll surely have to modify the to-hit value for the other(s) variant(s)

Something interesting about the LR stats, open the NetEpic Squat Codex and check the stats of the IronHammer tank. Same price but Ironhammer stats are really better and it has All around armor, TSM is -3 and it get 2 extra heavy bolters shots. Ironhammer CAF is "only" +2 but the LR can transport 2 bases. Is the Ironhammer underpriced or the LR overpriced ?

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Epic40k.fr Techpriest

I would go with LR overpriced as the stats are just now. For 250 points of tank I want something that convinces me to take them and not a Deathstrike or a Warhound or a... you get the idea.

Ideally I would like to see all twin linked weapons bump the weapons normal to hit value up by one notch but keep the number of attacks the same. This would then represent the weapons increased chance to hit and combined power more effectively IMO.

Twin Lascannon on LR's 4+ AND an all round save all for 250 points per detachment. If your used to 200 point LR's this will seem fair. If your used to 250 point LR's then this will seem a bit extreme I guess.

Predators, I would like to see a distinction between Annihilators and Destroyers but that is another discussion. They wont require any change other than re-instating the Company Card for Space Marines.

If we are talking of how to limit these things due to how attractive they look on paper or play in game then I would rather they and all other units on all other lists were limited by availability rather than cost. Just like the Squat Bike Guild we made that Unique, limiting them to one company per 3000 points. Why not do the same here. One LR Company per 3000 points or even Chapter if you wanted to make them even rarer...

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Something interesting about the LR stats, open the NetEpic Squat Codex and check the stats of the IronHammer tank. Same price but Ironhammer stats are really better and it has All around armor, TSM is -3 and it get 2 extra heavy bolters shots. Ironhammer CAF is "only" +2 but the LR can transport 2 bases. Is the Ironhammer underpriced or the LR overpriced ?

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"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

Instead of trying to control choice through cost... it really aught not to be the first tool in the box... perhaps limiting the number allowed to be taken is the way to go. That way you can purchase other units too and still get some of the other cool stuff, just not a lot of it.

However, I admit these do seem worth the 300 points... just as I admit that Vindicator Tanks were worth the 200 points they were increased to due to their stats.

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

It would be cool if Marines got the Pred company as a tank only option....but did they ever get the Predator company?  Certainly not in 4.1 and I'll check the old cards tonight but I'm pretty sure it was IG only in the SM2 days as well.

Vindicators are 150 except for PDF, and that's more to reflect rarity/limit them.  Again, when did Marines get them by the Company?

As Parzval mentioned before, LRs owned at 600.  They might be a bit high at 750 I guess...but I take them all the time for my CSMs and they seem decent value to me.

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