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Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
Vaaish
 Post subject: Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:31 am 
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Crisis stats I think we can all live with:
Infantry, 20cm, 3+sv, 6+cc, 5+ff
Twin-linked Missile Pods:  30cm AP4+/AT5+ (same stats as on Tigershark)
Twin-linked Plasma Rifles: 30cm AP4+
Twinlinked Fusion Blasters:  15cm MW4+ and
...........................................(15cm) Small Arms Macro-Weapon


Are you suggesting that there are three different types of crisis suits or that all crisis suits have missile pods, plasma rifles, AND fusion blasters. From a 40k perspective a battlesuit can't have more than one of those twinlinked at a time and if it carries all three weapons none can be twinlinked. This is because the battlesuit is only capable of mounting three weapons and two of the same type must be taken to make them twinlinked.

I think the better route to make it more accurate to what the suits can carry regardless of the 40k stats (they only have two arms and maybe a shoulder mount)

Infantry, 20cm, 3+sv, 6+cc, 5+ff
Missile Pod:  30cm AP5+/AT6+ (Same as autocannon)
Plasma Rifle: 30cm AP5+ (if it follows the same as the difference between a twin las and a single)
Fusion Blasters:  15cm MW5+ and
...........................................(15cm) Small Arms Macro-Weapon

Whether or not this is actually workable I think this is accurate to the non twin linked stats.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:08 am 
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I'd like to go back to the 4.4.1 Crisis suits, where they had a 15cm MW4+ and FF5+MW

Aaaaaaaa-men....  :;):

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:33 am 
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The point of an experimental list is to make something that works well, and yet behaves differently than other forces on the table (otherwise, it's just another Guard/Eldar/Marine army), right?  How can we say that FF4+ is broken without playing it and finding out?  Put your game where your opinion is, and back it up.  TRC had some issues that no-one else believed at the time, dropped several playtest games to prove his point, and that lead to increasing the points cost for AX10s, and their deployment as single-DC aircraft instead of WEs.


The problem is always the same LiTS, squeaky wheels get greased.
No one has been prepared to actually "experiment" with this list to any great extent as everyone seems to want it to be ready for release in the "next version".  

Hopefully when CS/Honda release the next version some real play-testing will get done instead of the standard theory/math-hammer testing. Unfortunately I doubt the 4+ FF will ever see the light of day because we'll be testing the sanitised Hena version instead of trying the beefed up version to actually disprove it.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:58 am 
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Quote: (Vaaish @ 04 Mar. 2009, 00:31 )

Crisis stats I think we can all live with:
Infantry, 20cm, 3+sv, 6+cc, 5+ff
Twin-linked Missile Pods:  30cm AP4+/AT5+ (same stats as on Tigershark)
Twin-linked Plasma Rifles: 30cm AP4+
Twinlinked Fusion Blasters:  15cm MW4+ and
...........................................(15cm) Small Arms Macro-Weapon


Are you suggesting that there are three different types of crisis suits or that all crisis suits have missile pods, plasma rifles, AND fusion blasters.

Each Crisis Suit stand is actually (at least) *THREE* Crisis Suits, as they're infantry, and infantry stands represent 3-7 guys...  so, one Suit has the TL Missile Pods, one has the TL Plasma Rifles, and the third has the TL Fusion Blasters... with a few tertiary weapons thrown in as well...

At least, that's what I've always assumed with looking at the stats.

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Onyx
 Post subject: Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:46 am 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 04 Mar. 2009, 10:58 )

Quote: (Vaaish @ 04 Mar. 2009, 00:31 )

Crisis stats I think we can all live with:
Infantry, 20cm, 3+sv, 6+cc, 5+ff
Twin-linked Missile Pods:  30cm AP4+/AT5+ (same stats as on Tigershark)
Twin-linked Plasma Rifles: 30cm AP4+
Twinlinked Fusion Blasters:  15cm MW4+ and
...........................................(15cm) Small Arms Macro-Weapon


Are you suggesting that there are three different types of crisis suits or that all crisis suits have missile pods, plasma rifles, AND fusion blasters.

Each Crisis Suit stand is actually (at least) *THREE* Crisis Suits, as they're infantry, and infantry stands represent 3-7 guys...  so, one Suit has the TL Missile Pods, one has the TL Plasma Rifles, and the third has the TL Fusion Blasters... with a few tertiary weapons thrown in as well...

At least, that's what I've always assumed with looking at the stats.

Agreed.

No need to think of these a single figure stands.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Quote: (Lion in the Stars @ 03 Mar. 2009, 23:51 )

@nealhunt:  Let's see here... (checks archive of E:A Tau lists) Crisis don't have MW FF in 4.4.3, or 4.4.2.  They have it in 4.4.1.

Well, that's what I get for not keeping up, then trying to jump back in without doing enough homework.

The point of an experimental list is to make something that works well, and yet behaves differently than other forces on the table (otherwise, it's just another Guard/Eldar/Marine army), right?  How can we say that FF4+ is broken without playing it and finding out?


Who claimed that FF4+ is broken?  Personally, I'd say the likelihood that it would be in some way unbalanced is very low.

My issue with it is the "behaves differently than other forces" aspect. The 4+FF Tau Firewarrior army starts looking an awful lot like an Eldar Guardian army - mech infantry with decent, mostly AP, firepower and good assault, backed up by fairly fragile skimmer tanks and good aircraft.  They even have the same weakness with most units needing to be under 30cm range to maximize firepower.  Stompzilla referred to this several pages ago when he said (paraphrased) he switched to Eldar because he wanted Tau who could assault.

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shmitty
 Post subject: Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:14 pm 
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Quote: (nealhunt @ 04 Mar. 2009, 15:44 )

My issue with it is the "behaves differently than other forces" aspect. The 4+FF Tau Firewarrior army starts looking an awful lot like an Eldar Guardian army - mech infantry with decent, mostly AP, firepower and good assault, backed up by fairly fragile skimmer tanks and good aircraft.  They even have the same weakness with most units needing to be under 30cm range to maximize firepower.  Stompzilla referred to this several pages ago when he said (paraphrased) he switched to Eldar because he wanted Tau who could assault.

So far, I would disagree with that Neal.  The games I have played with FF4+ Tau recently have been against Biel-Tan Eldar and the two armies played fairly differently.

Tau infantry may have a short range, but the range on Tau vehicles is considerably better.  Both may use skimmers, but the Tau are sluggishly slow by comparison.  Eldar have Nightspinners for Indirect Firing, but overall have worse armour than the Tau.

They may seem like small things, but in my on the table experience with it, the two armies played quite differently from each other.
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stompzilla
 Post subject: Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:46 pm 
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Quote: (nealhunt @ 04 Mar. 2009, 15:44 )

 Stompzilla referred to this several pages ago when he said (paraphrased) he switched to Eldar because he wanted Tau who could assault.

Don't put words in my mouth.  I never said that.

I said that i stopped playing Tau because they were DULL and i felt i was missing out on a large part of the game by not being able to engage.

Once again i agree with Shmitty.  Tau are a lot different to Eldar even with a FF4+ FW.  Better armour, longer range, more and better AT but no hit and run, no webway and no air assault.  The lack of hit and run is actually a massive deal and defines the Eldar as an army and differentiates them from everyone else.

The fact that they have Infantry backed up by tanks and good fliers could be said about almost all other armies
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Honda
 Post subject: Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:25 pm 
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What do you mean no air assault. Orca?


Hena,

Just because you "can", doesn't mean you should.  :smile:

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Ginger
 Post subject: Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:37 pm 
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(pops out briefly)


Ok, a radical thought here, is Orca needed?? I realise it gives air assault capabilities, but is that what the Tau actually do??


(and ducks back into the safety of his hole)




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shmitty
 Post subject: Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:39 pm 
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I know the next time I try out FF4+ FWs I will be using an Orca to see what they can do.  I am really hoping it works out alright as I like the Orca, but as it is in the list right now I rarely take them as there is little reason to want to get my Tau in that close.
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Irondeath
 Post subject: Tau Infantry DiscussionPu
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Seems that for some maneuvering to shoot or overwatch is just not an option.

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