I spent some more time toying with this idea and I think it is a good one Dobbsy.

What if we had a unit like this:

Crisis Shas'el and Retinue    (the name could use work)
Speed - 20cm
Armour - 3+
CC - 6+
FF - 5+
Twin-Linked Missile Pod    30cm     AP4+/AT5+
Twin-Linked Plasma Guns   30cm   AP4+
Twin-Linked Fusion Guns    15cm    MW4+
Tau Jet Packs, Invulnerable Save, Coordinated Fire, Leader

Which could be 100 points.

Pros - Easier to add Leader to FW cadres

Cons - Makes it more expensive to add a Leader to Crisis cadres
            Still not a very cheap add-on
            If you mount the FWs in DF, the Crisis suit will not last long against AP fire


In looking at the Tau list it seems weird to me that the 'Leader' ability is so readily available to the Vehicle formations, but almost non-existent for infantry formation outside of Crisis Suits.  A support group of Stingrays can get a Leader for 25 points, but group of Broadsides can't or not more than one FW cadre.  That could be another reason why vehicle heavy lists are so favored.

I still believe the upgrades should be "variable", as in "Add 0-2 Crisis Battlesuits at +xx each", then you could add a single Crisis suit and add a Shas'El to that to lead a formation.

As it is, you could add the Crisis Upgrade and a Shas'El to a Fire Warrior cadre if you really wanted a leader in there.

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The crisis suit leader is too expensive and prone to sniping. It would also give FW's access to co-ord fire. I think a 25 point upgrade to give the formation leader would be better and keep the points cost down. Or maybe allow devilfish to take the networked drones upgrade.

The crisis suit leader is too expensive and prone to sniping.

It is prone to sniping because, as has been mentioned, when the FW's embark in devilfish it can't so AP hits would have to be taken by it. With an AS3+ it has a good chance of surviving, but still. I think 100 points for a leader is much too expensive for FW's. It would make them cost the same as 4 crisis suits with a leader. I think this cost would be prohibitive. If HH's can buy the leader upgrade for 25 points I see no reason why devilfish or FW's can't have the same option.

When does anyone stay in their transports?

I always Double to get the mobility of the transport, without the death trap of sitting in them for the rest of the turn.

You'd stay in if you were planning a long ranged engagement next turn...

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

With Tau? I thought that was worse that kicking an orphan.

I've yet to see anyone sit in transports to do this (slightly possible Eldar), as it becomes such a juicy target for anything that can get in range, LOS and has AT. You getting 'free' inf hits.

I do it all the time with my Dark Eldar, but they aren't really as disadvantaged by it, and need to stay as mobile as possible.

I've seen it done with guard and marines many times.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

A Shas'El (laeder) is only +50 points...

The two Crisis Suits you need to add are an additional +125...

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I do it all the time with Aspect warrior formations in wave serpents, with troops that are good in Firefights it can be amazing, yes i don't tend to do it against guard if they have anyillery company thats still in working order but other than that it's a very useful tactic with eldar because of hit and run

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I often deloy embarked in devilfish to give them an effective shooting range of 60cm rather than 45 without the need for doubling. I occasionally re-embark for the same reason or in order to claim objectives on the 3rd turn if I feel relatively safe. If FW's have to double to shoot in my opinion with the current stats you shouldn't bother.

Over 100 points for a leader is too much in my opinion when virtually ever other infantry formation gets them for 50.

Eldar have a *single* "leader" option for their infantry... and they still seem to do okay... is a FW specific leader really necessary?

Why not allow the "Networked Drones" to be added to a Devilfish or Hammerhead attached to the Fire Warrior Cadre?

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Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?