:-)... of course it's way off topic... except that the topic is -- to a degree -- the perverse tastes of wargamers (not least our taste for the psuedo-realistic).

And, actually, your point about the Sherman is illustrative: in reality it was used exactly for the purpose for which it was designed. Nevertheless, we wargamers tend to "use it" (and brew it up) in a manner that was unrepresentative of history -- the stereotypical Sherman v. Panther encounter was relatively rare, if admittedly dramatic. (For that matter, I'd venture, in the majority of these actual historical encounters, the Sherman's crew spoke Russian).

It's like the phenomenon of the tens of thousands of French Guards, Scots Greys, and 42nd Highlanders on the wargaming table -- almost every late-war German-American encounter involves as Panther, a Tiger, or a King Tiger, while the reality was that this favorite wargamers' encounter was relatively rare.

Granted... the Sherman was 'outside its design parameters' through much of June/July 1944, but so were the Panthers and Tigers.

But, to bring it back to topic, GW will produce its Nth variation on the Baneswordhammerlord for much the same reason Wargames Factory will, almost inevitably, produce a box of Highlanders and Genies of the Guard -- wargamers want to play with the glamorous stuff.

But then, to get back to my threadjack, the interesting thing about the Stuka is that it illustrates the degree to which wargamers and strategists share the psuedo-realist's tastes.  Historically, and at the time, it was assessed based on its performance at a task for which it wasn't designed....

...Thank God, because it was awfully good at what it was supposed to do.

I wasn't arguing the Sherman wasn't used in its intended role, because it most certainly was and did that job very effectively. My point was that it was occasionally thrown into tank vs. tank engagements, which is not what it was designed for. I do agree that such stereotypical encounters were relatively rare, but they did occur. One Panther commander is quoted as saying that one Panther was worth 10 Shermans, but there was always an 11th!

I also agree that wargamers want to play with glamorous stuff.  

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Nice quote, yup.
I tend to think it explains a lot about history to realize that certain historical figures were, at heart, wargamers as well.

Guys, to round this back up to the thread, a very simple way to bring the 'realism' back in is to play campaigns or even just a series of battles, where the 'dead' remain dead.

Wargamers want the "glorious" stuff where they kill hordes of 'the enemy' for no loss, or lines of troops on parade. One-off battles where you can always get the model / variant that you want teleported to your command will always be unrepresentative, but OTOH will line the coffers of GW, who will adjust the relevant stats to make the latest incarnation more attractive.

A silly thought, but perhaps we ought to use a randomising mechanism to choose the army size and composition, so for example throw 12x 2D6 to get up to 12 formations,
-   2-4 is nothing,
-   5-8 is infantry,
-   9-10 is armour,
-   11-12 is air.

Within those categories you would dice again to determine the type of infantry, armour or air formations etc. Tied to a "Campaign" system, the variants would change depending upon local logistics, strategic R&D and the 'meddling megalomaniac' factor described above. So players could declare that they are building "Blitzkrieg" or "trench warfare" style armies, and the variants would be coloured accordingly.

Still, GW would never sanction such an idea because of the limiting effect it would have on sales of the SHT tanke 'clones'

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

One of the worst in this respect was Frederick the Great

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

Heh, heh ... DAT ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

ON the Super heavy theme, I'm keen to field a company of Storm Blade tanks for E:A. What do they count as? A shadowsword? Or have I missed specific Storm Blade stats somewhere?

All these new 40k tanks are cool, but do make me wish GW would also support the classic epic versions! Players being wowed by a super heavy tank? Big deal- epic players can field several, plus several hundred troops, chuck in a few titans and still finish a game in time for tea.  

I do wonder actually, don't these uber destructive machines  just sweep the board in 40k? How much armoured firepower do you want?!!

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Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

What needs to be remembered is that 40k is a game for teenagers, and is appropriately packed with flash and thunder type units... and yes, SHTs and the like to kill silly ammounts of stuff in 40k games.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Yes. Apocalypse units are designed to kill ridiculous amounts of troops so that the game can be finished in short time.
Nevertheless i will come up with stats in Epic for them

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We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

After seeing the White Dwarf in question, I am even more derisive of these monotonous variants. Exception: Stormlord with the mega-bolters.

Ah...E&C; a man of my own thinking!

However; what brings me to this thread is Ginger's suggestion; i like this very much and will be trying it out somewhen in order to create some fun games.

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Mok's Modular Modern Messy Guard Army

No truer words have ever been spoken, E&C !  40K is for kids ! The "Like Bright shiny things" crowd !  And G/W has to sell models ! In Epic scale these uber-heavy AFVs make some sense if nothing else then range and dispersion considerations ...   But 40K:A being the 25mm(or is it 28mm now ?!) version of Epic further highlights the "40K is for kids" !    

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Last time I heard the size discussed was in a White Dwarf article when one of the sculptors commented that he enjoyed working on '35mm figures'. So I guess even 28mm is long gone...
Regards,
Reaver

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Visit our websites:
Michael Lovejoy's Art
Grey Army

Well Epic is now close to 8mm ... now ...  Whose the Short guy with the Padre !?!  

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

That's a big difference.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart