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New Elysians List Released
Moscovian
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:06 pm 
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Commissars are 1D6 per the special rule at the beginning.  If you play, is there any chance you can throw a batrep up on the forum for us to see?

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dptdexys
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:23 pm 
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Quote: (Moscovian @ 17 Feb. 2009, 18:06 )

Commissars are 1D6 per the special rule at the beginning.  If you play, is there any chance you can throw a batrep up on the forum for us to see?

I cannot see the commissars limit on the new version of the list that I have.
The only special rules I see are Drop Troops,Iron discipline and no garrisoning.

I'll take my camera and if we do get a game in I will try to get a report up.
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Moscovian
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:41 pm 
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Heh, I guess Honda left it off on 2.1.4.   Don't worry, he'll put out 2.1.5 soon enough.   :laugh:

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Honda
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Actually, the limitation on Commissars was something that I put in because of some fiction I was writing at the time (not finished). :sigh:

In the last round of discussions, it was agreed by the majority that the limitation should be lifted. So I have removed it.

The 1D6 is a flashback to earlier versions.

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Ginger
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:28 pm 
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Honda, like Dptdexys I am a little confused on Commisars. If the 1D6 number is removed, how many should we be using?
Quote: (dptdexys @ 17 Feb. 2009, 17:59 )

In fact,Gavin (Ginger) do you fancy giving them a try on the Sunday Gaming day.I have enough infantry and quite a few sentinels plus we can proxy what we don't have.
Ok Dptdexys, your on. We'll give them a test at FSA (provided we use your 'left-handed' dice of course :p ). I'll bring what limited stuff I can to bolster the numbers of sentinels and Valkyries / Vultures.




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Honda
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:31 pm 
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Honda, like Dptdexys I am a little confused on Commisars. If the 1D6 number is removed, how many should we be using?


Ok, I follow you now. I will update the list so that players use the same number of commissars as the Steel Legion list.

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dptdexys
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:12 am 
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Quote: (Ginger @ 17 Feb. 2009, 20:28 )

Ok Dptdexys, your on. We'll give them a test at FSA (provided we use your 'left-handed' dice of course :p ).

Mmmmmm.......dare I let you near my dice again after last time :tongue:
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Honda
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:07 am 
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Another quick post just to confirm that all units in the Elysian 40K list arrive either by Deep Strike or in a Valkyrie. This includes both types of Sentinels, the Cyclops, Tarantula's, and all infantry types.

Is FSA this coming weekend? If so, I need to get a move on the edits.

Cheers,

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zombocom
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:31 am 
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Quote: (Honda @ 18 Feb. 2009, 02:07 )

Another quick post just to confirm that all units in the Elysian 40K list arrive either by Deep Strike or in a Valkyrie. This includes both types of Sentinels, the Cyclops, Tarantula's, and all infantry types.

No, all units in the Elysian 40K list can arrive either by Deep Strike or in a Valkyrie, or can choose to deploy as normal.

Hence the point of support sentinels in 40k is to deploy and guide down the rest of the army.



Has there been any discussion as to why the army has teleport at epic scale? In 40k they all have deep strike to represent them being dropped by high flying valkyries. Is that really worth giving them teleport at Epic scale, rather than just giving them valkyries?

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dptdexys
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:11 am 
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Quote: (Honda @ 18 Feb. 2009, 02:07 )

Is FSA this coming weekend? If so, I need to get a move on the edits.

Cheers,

FSA is on the 28th of Feb.,gaming day is the 1st of March.
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Steve54
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:29 pm 
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Quote: (nealhunt @ 17 Feb. 2009, 14:09 )

Quote: (dptdexys @ 17 Feb. 2009, 08:07 )

Quote: (Steve54 @ 17 Feb. 2009, 07:06 )

Quote: (Ginger @ 16 Feb. 2009, 23:06 )

If I were doing a 'TRC powergamed' army list, at first sight this cries "teleported popcorn" to me, so have you tried something like:-

Please no more TRC style theoryhammer - its already responsible for the loss of droppods for scouts.

I agree, test and forget the theory hammer.

Well, gee whiz, I guess it's a good thing that testing is exactly what Ginger suggested.  You might even note that he asked "have you tried something like..." to see if it had been tested.

That's what "theoryhammer" is good for - prioritizing testing.

Thats great if it is tested but not - as with TRC and multiple marine scouts in drop pods, if it is just put forward as being overpowered so many times, with no actual testing, that it ends up being taken as read.

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Ginger
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:45 pm 
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Quote: (Steve54 @ 18 Feb. 2009, 12:29 )

Quote: (nealhunt @ 17 Feb. 2009, 14:09 )

Well, gee whiz, I guess it's a good thing that testing is exactly what Ginger suggested.  You might even note that he asked "have you tried something like..." to see if it had been tested.

That's what "theoryhammer" is good for - prioritizing testing.

Thats great if it is tested but not - as with TRC and multiple marine scouts in drop pods, if it is just put forward as being overpowered so many times, with no actual testing, that it ends up being taken as read.

TRC is out of contact at the moment and I don't know who else he played, but he and I played a number of games in the past using the 5x scout drop against Ork and Eldar armies and the results were brutal; it was not all "theory-hammer". (mind you, you do have to make some allowance for my dice :laugh: ).

Back on topic, I hope to get a couple of games in with Dave at FSA, and you can rest assured that "Teleported popcorn" will be one of them (though we will probably have to use some proxies - I really doubt that we have 48 sentinals between us :laugh: )

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Honda
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:49 pm 
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Hence the point of support sentinels in 40k is to deploy and guide down the rest of the army.


No, that is a "tactic" that is supported by the rules. Any version of the Sentinel may carry the improved comms which allows for the re-roll of reserves.

I can see that I was leaving out a detail regarding the normal deployment option. I did that because we were discussing the Teleport rule, however, my bad for leaving that out.

So to be clear, all Elysian units in 40K may:

1. Deploy as normal

2. Be transported by a Valkyrie

3. Deep Strike in

It is also worth noting that the Valkyrie is classifield as an Orbital Lander which would imply that it could Planetfall. I chose to leave that out of this list at this point in time to validate other game play mechanisms.

Is there fluff of them dropping from orbit or something? I mean allowing planetfall or valkyries to all (including sentinels) might be a workable solution.

Again, that option is implied by the addition of a rule for Valkyries, but as stated above I am choosing to leave that out for the time being.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:03 pm 
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Quote: (Steve54 @ 18 Feb. 2009, 12:29 )

Thats great if it is tested but not - as with TRC and multiple marine scouts in drop pods, if it is just put forward as being overpowered so many times, with no actual testing, that it ends up being taken as read.

Where do you get this idea, Steve?

Many people tested the Scout barrage.  It wasn't a unanimous opinion by any stretch of the imagination, but a majority found it overpowered.

Personally, in addition to trying it with the SM list I also tested the undeniably weaker Black Legion version (fewer and less flexible formations for the same points, lower SR, split forces due to mandatory non-deepstrike formations).  I played a total of more than a half dozen games using drop barrage armies, including a tourney, and a couple against them.  The results were consistent - the BL version was competitive but not especially strong while the SM version was overpowered.

You may have had different experiences and disagree with the change but asserting that it was all theoryhammer is just wrong.




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