I agree, test and forget the theory hammer.

I'm a bit puizzled abpout the M;arauder Destroyer stats.
Haven`t we agreed about this stats?

Marauder Destroyer     2 for 375
Bomber
Armour 4+
3x Twin-linked Autocannon  - 30cm   AP4+/AT5+    Fxf
2x Underwing Rocket Barrage - 30cm AT3+    Fxf
Twin Heavy Bolters - 15cm   AA5+
Twin Assault Cannon - 15cm AA4+       Rear Arc

From this Thread? http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums/ ... 74;t=14641

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We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

Hi, it seems we have a shared interest in Guardsmen falling from the sky.

I've started work (literally first draft, ideas) on my own Drop Troops style list, purely for personal use and can offer humble suggestions (in no way intended to parasitically leach advice from your constructive audience,   ).

We have come to similar conclusions about a Drop Troops list being about Guard Infantry 'appearing' about the battlefield, about the lack of heavy armour being the downside vital in making them balanced compared to Steel Legion.

How we've gone about it game-wise differs.


I've introduced 'Grav-Drops', essentially a 'Spacecraft' (you plot the turn they fly over, etc) that allows up to 3 Drop Trooper Companies to Planetfall.

Fluff-wise- a Parachute drop of the size of Companies is pre-planned, requiring pre-prepared drop sites, rallying points, etc.

Game-wise- it gives the Guard player the ability to arrive anywhere on the board, but without the perhaps overpowering ability to choose whenever and wherever as demands. It means the Guard Paratrooper player must have a working plan before landing, rather than just through formations about reactively.

I think it offsets the inherent advantage of arriving when and where you want on the board.


I've also included 'glider companies' or Dropcraft Companies.

Dropcraft 5+ RA. Transport: 4. Bomber. CC 6 FF 6. Heavy bolter 30cm AP5/AA6.

Dropcraft Company is 12 IG. 1 Command. 4 Dropcraft.
-Once landed the Dropcraft cannot take off.

Ideally, once your Drop Trooper Companies have Planetfalled, your Dropcraft Companies fly in to support the attack. The Dropcraft are remarkably stubborn, but once down are pretty much static Heavy Bolter mounts.

We have Demo Charges in common, though I've made them a separate unit:

Sappers- Save -. CC 5+. FF 6. Demo-Charge- 15cm MW3+, One Shot.
4 for 75pts as upgrade.

I figured with a lack of heavy armour, there's a lack of Titan Killer, and MW's to deal with heavy armour- so I essentially 'threw them a bone'. A very short-ranged, limited bone.


Hopefully I've given some new ideas, as your list has to me- I've not considered other versions of Aircraft, or more usage of Valkyries for example.

My apologies, I misread the list combining the three upgrades and the two support companies. A revised version of that "popcorn" list would provide 6x Drop Companies (including the Regimental HQ), 12x sentinals and still have 230 spare (for upgrades). So ~18 teleporting formations that arrive 'up close and personal'.

Actually, I think the solution is quite simple; remove teleport from the sentinels. This brings them back to a reasonable power level due to their reduced range and keeps the costs unchanged. It also make the list quite elegant; while the Drop companies can both teleport and use Valkyries, the Drop company upgrades and Support companies can either teleport or have valkyries, which makes for some interesting list choices.

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

Removing the 'drop' from the Drop Sentinels is silly IMO, not to mention against the fluff.  Both troops and sentinels can drop on grav chutes.

Now I can't find a thing on Support Sentinels anywhere .  It is possible that they are in the Taros book, but I don't have access to such a tome (too rich for my blood these days).  If it turns out there isn't anything documenting Support Sentinels as coming in on Grav Chutes then you can limit their deployment by Valkyrie.  I'm not convinced this limitation is necessary, but I throw it out as food for thought.

I've introduced 'Grav-Drops', essentially a 'Spacecraft' (you plot the turn they fly over, etc) that allows up to 3 Drop Trooper Companies to Planetfall.

Fluff-wise- a Parachute drop of the size of Companies is pre-planned, requiring pre-prepared drop sites, rallying points, etc.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Well, gee whiz, I guess it's a good thing that testing is exactly what Ginger suggested.  You might even note that he asked "have you tried something like..." to see if it had been tested.

That's what "theoryhammer" is good for - prioritizing testing.

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Neal

Elysians use 2 different types.  The Support Sentiel doesn't usually drop, and is armed with a rocket or missile pod and sensor equipment which acts as a beacon to help the elysians drop in the right place.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I actually like this idea and suggested it to Honda about two years ago when I initially found the Elysian list.  I believe he passed on the idea, but didn't axe it completely.

I had a feeling this would be true. It's why I hesitate to suggest anything here, it's already been suggested and refuted years before my arrival.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

A couple of quick comments because I am up to my ears in auditors (it's that time of year),

1. Black Legion: You are correct on the MD and that was my bad. While I was updating the entry, I only did the armaments part.

2. Jeridian: A great while back, as I was looking for the design concept for the Elysians, I polled other "authors" about how they might approach the list. Your idea came up quite often. I chose not to take that approach because it reflects a more WW II Parachute company concept vs. Airmobile. I think the latter more accurately reflects how the Elysians operate.

Neither is bad and if someone were so inclined to do something for like the Harakoni Warhawks, maybe that would be a distinguishing characteristic, but this list is intended to model the Elysians (good and bad) as FW depicts them in IA3.

3. Teleporting Sentinels: I will confirm this tonight, but I am pretty sure that all units in the Elysian list may either choose to be transported by a Valkyrie or may teleport, reflecting the use of grav chutes. The Sentinels do have grav chutes on them. I know, because I need to model them on my 40K scale Sentinels.

Now, if in playtesting it turns out that these units are undercosted, no big deal, we'll fix that.

I would also like to point out something that seems to be continually left out when players focus on the capabilities and almighty powers of Teleport. Remember that each formation that teleports has to roll for BMs upon landing. Keep in mind the downside of starting your turn with N blast markers on your formation.

4. Mosc - The leaving out of Valkyrie transport for upgrades is intentional. When Elysians Reloaded list development kicked off again (remember, you started this   ), there were a number of playtests that pointed out how the extra Valkyries provided way too much firepower to those formations and that costing them appropriately wasn't working very well either.

The suggestion by either Mark_logue or Onyx (not sure exactly who without checking) was to allow the smaller formations to be completely airmobile (i.e. carried in Valkyries), but the larger to either be all Teleport OR forcing the add ons to walk.

So, you can either 1) make fairly large Drop companies, but they will either be really slow and tied to the foot sloggers or 2) they all Teleport, in which case you have a very large formation that has a pretty decent chance of receiving BMs when it lands. BMs are the trade off for very high mobility.

What has not been looked at is Option 1, where the attached Valks basically operate as dedicated air support. I see some potential there, even though that isn't the intent of the list. If that turns out to be some sort of loop hole that we want closed, then I'll modify the list so that you can only have small transported formations or large air dropped formations.

Thanx all for the feedback.

Cheers,

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Mosc - The leaving out of Valkyrie transport for upgrades is intentional

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

It would be great to see a batrep from you (pics are always helpful) on your own list and how the game worked.  You never know... It might bring about change on this list.

Has it been considered that perhaps the teleporting/appearing approach isn't the best representation?

after all, Storm Troopers can teleport on in 40k, but at Epic scale they have their Valkyries with them at all times.

Just a thought from a guy who owns an Elysian army in 40k scale.  

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Has it been considered that perhaps the teleporting/appearing approach isn't the best representation?

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Should the Regimental HQ be limited to 0-1.

How many commissars are allowed 2d6 or 1 per 500 points.

Do the Storm troopers need to have teleport as they come with Valkyries attached which don't have teleport and it is unlikely anyone would drop the valkyries to deploy storm troopers at 350.

I like the look of this list and will try to get a few games with it after FSA at the end of February.

In fact,Gavin (Ginger) do you fancy giving them a try on the Sunday Gaming day.I have enough infantry and quite a few sentinels plus we can proxy what we don't have.