Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 103 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

New Elysians List Released

 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:03 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
I am very happy to announce that the latest version of the Elysian Drop Regiment is now available for testing.

The list can be found on the summary page of IG lists

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums/ ... 74;t=12321

Let me know if you have any questions.

Cheers,

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:35 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6397
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
To represent Iron Discipline, all Elysian units (does not include Imperial Navy) require +1 BM to break a unit and


Shouldn't this read as follows:

To represent Iron Discipline, all Elysian formations(does not include Imperial Navy) require +1 BM to break a formation and...

Sorry for the late catch - it was on the old list too.

_________________
Current Fan-made Epic Supplements
[url=http://www.tacticalwargames.net/resources/raiders2.zip]Epic: Raiders 2.0

Epic: Siege
Making your own Epic Supplement
Syncing Forward


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:56 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20871
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
I'm still not convinced by the need for the Iron Discipline rule.

The text in the Valkyrie entry is concealed.

The weapon name for the Support Sentinel should be 'Missile Launcher', not Rocket Pod (The Rocket Pods Sentinels can take are the same as the BP weapon a Valkyrie carries... luckily there is a Missile Launcher option instead that suits nicely).




_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:25 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6397
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
Questions and points:

0-2 Hardened Vets can be added to the Drop Troopers, but there is no option to add an additional Valkyrie to transport them; this would force Hardened Vets to teleport in.  Is this intentional or was their Valkyrie transport option overlooked?

Storm Troopers should be called Elysian Storm Troopers since their datafax is different (they have teleport).

Elysian Support Squad doesn't appear in the Army List.  Instead it reads
Fire Support Platoon: A Drop Troop company may select 2 Fire Support units.

Any of the descriptors are fine with me; they just need to be consistent.

Same thing with the Elysian Mortar Squad vs. Mortar units.  The descriptors just need to be made (more) consistent.

The Infantry Platoon upgrade references Infantry units which don't have a datafax.

The Support Squads, Mortar Squads, and Infantry Platoon have no Valkyrie transport options as well.  Is this to prevent massed Valkyries appearing on the board?

Drop Sentinel Squadron & Support Sentinal Squadron datafax has Iron Discipline in the notes and should have it removed (since Iron Discipline is for all Elysian formations anyway).
Also, both of these datafaxes should have the word 'Squadron' omitted since they are units.

Valkyrie datafax should omit Iron Discipline from its note section.

Lunar Class Cruiser datafax should only have one Pin Point, not two.

Lightning Strike Fighter and Marauder Destroyer datafaxes have weird lines in the middle of it. :oo:

Marauder Destroyer's Assault Cannons should be 'Rear Arc' instead of 'Rear 180'.

And there are three blank pages at the back of the pdf too.

Other than that it looks good.  :))

_________________
Current Fan-made Epic Supplements
[url=http://www.tacticalwargames.net/resources/raiders2.zip]Epic: Raiders 2.0

Epic: Siege
Making your own Epic Supplement
Syncing Forward


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:03 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5477
Location: London, UK
I notice that the Marauder Destroyer has changed to 6+ on a 2DC aircraft. Doesn't this go against the Marauder design that has already been published (and our discussions).

Will need very heavy testing as a formation of 2x DC2 aircraft is very strong needing at least 3x AA hits to have a chance of killing a single aircraft, no matter how weak the armour.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:39 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20871
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Indeed I agree with Ginger.

If you want to try a 2DC stat for Marauders, I recommend allowing them only as singles, not in squadrons.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:26 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5477
Location: London, UK
Quote: (Moscovian @ 16 Feb. 2009, 19:25 )

Questions and points:

The Support Squads, Mortar Squads, and Infantry Platoon have no Valkyrie transport options as well.  Is this to prevent massed Valkyries appearing on the board?

If I have got the maths right, adding the three cheapest drop troop upgrades (Hardened Veterans, Fire support and mortar platoon) would create a formation of '14' infantry for 350 points. Mainly unarmoured, their strength will be in teleporting into cover, where they will put out a lot of close range fire power. Seems reasonable.

However, adding 7x Valkyries @40 each would turn this into a 710 point monster that could double and lay down a 9BP barrage in the opponents deployment zone, and still have enough fire power to repeat that again.

On balance, I would think restricting the transport to the drop companies is the way to go for the moment (but test the monster by all means).

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5477
Location: London, UK
Could you also explain the thinking behind the upgunned Support and Drop Sentinels.

You have increased their range or firepower, allowed them to teleport or be transported in Valkyries, and made them tougher all for an extra 25 points over the normal sentinels.

The addition of Valkyries turns both of these into very shooty and mobile formations that are moderately tough all for 285 points, which seems a little undercosted.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:06 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5477
Location: London, UK
If I were doing a 'TRC powergamed' army list, at first sight this cries "teleported popcorn" to me, so have you tried something like:-

SC Drop company 275
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125        650
Drop company 200
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125        575
Drop company 200
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125        575
Drop company 200
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125        575
Drop company 200
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125        575

20x formations for 2950, all of which can teleport in to grab objectives, loads of MW firepower and a number of commisars to make stuff Fearless. I realise that these are brittle formations, but even so, you should reckon on having at least 10 formations more than most opponents still to activate and rip any remaining enemy formations to shreds - especially if they have teleported into 'sustain' range "up close and personal" so to speak.

So, does everything have to have teleport??

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:57 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6397
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
While I share some of Ginger's concerns, I have yet to see any of these popcorn armies actually in play.  The only exception is when ePilgrim fielded 16 formations of Space Marine Land Speeders and Bikes against my Orks (with eight activations :ghost: ).

Back on the Elysians though, I don't see how you can argue both for breaking up the Marauder Destroyers and saying that the list screams 'popcorn'.  The MDs are together partly to make the formation expensive and limit the units' abilities to strike multiple formations.  In the end I have a sneaky suspicion we'll find them about 25 points underpriced (should be 400) but I'll playtest them first and see if the evidence weighs out first.  WE's certainly have their advantages but their power IMO is mitigated when they are air units because the BMs affect them differently than land WE's.  Compare the MD formation to Phoenix Bombers and it's quite the toss up as I see it.

Same thing goes for the Sentinels.  While they seem to be about 25 points too cheap, I'll playtest them first.  

And, yes that is the beginning of my army, looking shiny and smelling like a big fat stogie :cool: .  I started gluing together my Elysians finally and I am hoping to see the list balanced and the army done by May.




_________________
Current Fan-made Epic Supplements
[url=http://www.tacticalwargames.net/resources/raiders2.zip]Epic: Raiders 2.0

Epic: Siege
Making your own Epic Supplement
Syncing Forward


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:22 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
Ah, I see how this works now. Publish and then they read it for real.  :cool:

So, now that we've found all sorts of stuff, just about all of which was in the previous version, I'll sort through the comments and evaluate.

I'm not complaining, but I do believe you chaps could work on your timing just a bit. :p

Give me a day or so and I'll go through the various points that were brought up and anything that needs to be resolved or cleaned up will get the proper attention.

Now, I will say one thing. When it comes to the MD, how long did we talk about that?

I realize that it was my fault to not list all the values of the aircraft and it is not my intention to go against what has been worked up for the regular M, but I can see we were all operating on two different sets of assumptions...which will cause me to wonder, by how much did that affect the decision making on the MD?

I don't intend to revisit the discussion on the armaments, but would someone please list out what the new values are for the corrected Marauder (not guns and bombs, the other stuff we apparently left out) and recommendations on the points. I had almost bumped them to 400 pts before, so I'm not going to scream if that's where they end up for this go around.

Cheers,




_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:06 am 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 4305
Quote: (Ginger @ 16 Feb. 2009, 23:06 )

If I were doing a 'TRC powergamed' army list, at first sight this cries "teleported popcorn" to me, so have you tried something like:-

Please no more TRC style theoryhammer - its already responsible for the loss of droppods for scouts.

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:56 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 1963
Location: South Yorkshire
Quote: (Ginger @ 16 Feb. 2009, 22:26 )

If I have got the maths right, adding the three cheapest drop troop upgrades (Hardened Veterans, Fire support and mortar platoon) would create a formation of '14' infantry for 350 points. Mainly unarmoured, their strength will be in teleporting into cover, where they will put out a lot of close range fire power. Seems reasonable.

However, adding 7x Valkyries @40 each would turn this into a 710 point monster that could double and lay down a 9BP barrage in the opponents deployment zone, and still have enough fire power to repeat that again.

On balance, I would think restricting the transport to the drop companies is the way to go for the moment (but test the monster by all means).

Adding 7 valkyries would take the total to 630 points (350 + 280). :agree:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:58 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 1963
Location: South Yorkshire
Quote: (Ginger @ 16 Feb. 2009, 23:06 )

If I were doing a 'TRC powergamed' army list, at first sight this cries "teleported popcorn" to me, so have you tried something like:-

SC Drop company 275
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125        650
Drop company 200
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125        575
Drop company 200
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125        575
Drop company 200
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125        575
Drop company 200
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125
Drop sentinal 125        575

Gavin,you've got your Eldar head on.
The Elysians only get 2 support formations per Company.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: New Elysians List Released
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:01 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 1963
Location: South Yorkshire
Why is the Armour on Maraurders only 6+. As they are Bombers they cannot Jink even on the way out.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 103 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

cron

Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net