why dose chroma always want to change the basic formation sizes and stuff of armies i already have painted ??  chroma, do you hate me ?? you dont want to change the basic design of the steel legion army do you ?, cause then ill have to paint everything all over again.  

_________________
"god help me, i do love it so" - Patton

Because I'm always thinking of you since the "Ulthwé Incident", all formations using the v4.4.3 list should be able to be replicated in my variant, illuvitar.  

Adding upgrades to the core formations should keep your collection intact!

P.S.  Does anyone want me to update my list?

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Yes please. I like the direction this is taking much more than CS's. Less is more IMHO.

I know you have been waiting for CS's opinion, but I would like to see what you do for an update.  So, please do.

Yes, I'd like an update to the list as well.

_________________
"For the Lion and the Emperor!"

Ok, been busy, but finally got caught up on this thread.

Things I do not like at all:

1. The removal of armored cadres. I'm not sure why this was done and what the justification for it is. Why is there an assumption that the Tau have to be an infantry force?

2. The removal of the Scorpionfish. Call it what you like, but it should not be classified as an aircraft and as has been discussed before, there is an implicit acknowledgement by FW in IA3 Taros, that it exists. I would be willing to debate whether or not is could have the SC upgrade (I think it should), but that is something else.

Questionable Approach:

1. Although I do not have a beef with upgunned FF values, JJ was very clear multiple times that that was not the approach he wants the Tau to take. So the question is whether you really want to invest a lot of effort in this path just so that he will dump it. Don't think he will? Go back and look at what happened to the Eldar.

2. Drop Vespids. Not needed

Approve:

1. Going back to the markerlight policy of old. I thought that worked and liked the mechanics

2. Reducing the Special Rules

I will ponder on some of the points and post later...

Cheers,

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

That would be one of the Cadres in an "Armoured Spearhead" Tau Armylist... this list is an "infantry focus" list, not a "kitchen sink" one.  That was the reasoning behind the choice.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Uh... Hena... I think *I* know why I made the choices in the list I posted.

I'm not talking about "All of the Tau", I'm answering a question about my "Chroma Variant".

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Honda, I think the prospect of gettting JJ to approve anything in the short or medium future is precisely zero. If players want to use lists then they are going to have to write them themselves. Then given approval of tournament organisers they could be used.

I really don't think an army that totally powerless in engagements just won't work well in EpicA, as the assault phase is were the majority of games are decided IMO.

To me Chroma's list is the way to go as much for what has been removed as added.

Ok, I guess I am a little confused here. I thought CS asked for comments regarding Chroma's list. I probably didn't express myself very well in my initial post, so from Chroma's list, the items that I commented on are the one's that stuck out to me.

To be honest with you and to answer back Mephiston, I do think that the Tau can be competitive without upping the FF values. If you go back and look at the 4.4.0 version of the list, there were a number of different builds possible and that included taking Fire Warrior Cadres. It's still the list I play with. From there to current, there was a de-emphasis on Armored cadres (increased costs) and all that was really accomplished was the entire list was made weaker.

I do think that trying to figure out variant lists without having settled on the core list is akin to nailing jello to a wall.

However, what this all revolves around is what the "vision" of the Tau should be. Chroma sees an infantry list, I am a strong proponent for a modern verions of an Armored Cavalry list, others see other things.

I don't mean this too harshly, but sometimes I swear that if I didn't have other things to occupy my time (i.e. Real Life â„¢ , 40K), this one list and what has happened to it would be enough to drive me insane. I keep hanging on to the hope that something reasonable will come out of all this.

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Actually, I see Tua as a mechanized infantry/combined arms list... and I think my variant delivers that... I don't think the "basic" Tau list should allow a completely "armoured" force as an option: with the v4.4.3 list, I can take an army that is only tanks... no Fire Warriors, no Crisis Suits, no infantry at all...  that doesn't seem essentially Tau to me.

I *do* think that's a valid army for a "Armoured Cadre" variant list, which would be the "grav-head" list for Tau. Actually, I believe thinking about variant lists while developing the "core" list is a very good thing as it allows you to focus a list while realizing you can do other things in later lists; you're not "figuring out" variant lists, you're leaving options open for them.

Example: if the Tank Cadre stays as a "core" formation in the basic list, there's essentially no need to develop a "tank" list for Tau, as it can easily be done by the main list.

Does that make sense as to why I believe one should consider possible variant lists while designing the "core"?

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?