Nice to see that you are working on these lists again.

-SoK is quite expensive, and I think it won't be used much, except when you have some spare to use.

-I still think that seer council's right price would be 75pts.

-Using aspect warriors have been quite rare by me nowadays even at 150pts, because they compete with other excellent troupes and that 2 limit per warhost really has an effect. Now when they are even more expensive, I think they'll be even more rare.

-Swords formation is back and that is great (they were best changes in 1.8 with removing the spirit stones), also having only pure night spinners ia a good thing. Downside is that SoK is not taken when there is 50pts choice, a superb falcon.

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Rats Keep Running...

Dark Eldar Dracon

People don't think Librarians are worth 50 points and they add Leader, Inv. Save, MWCC and MWFF, plus they are on board all game.  That's a lot more than you get for 50 points on the Spear of Khaine.

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Neal

The idea that "we can't give Ulthwe something for nothing" doesn't sit well with me.  

Ulthwe is, rightly so, one of the more restricted craftworlds:  i.e. # of black guardians per, # of Aspect Troupes per, no Aspect Warhosts, # of Troupes per Warhost, etc.  These are very characterful and appropriate.  Their inclusion calls for much applause.  

The Ulthwe list also requires a premium for many things:  i.e. Aspect Troupes - the increase has been well supported by the community; the Seer Council - not so much so.

The Sok is uniquely Ulthwe-ian(?).  The Ulthwe list does not require more point-sinks to enhance it's character.  Nor must it needlessly suffer to preserve the "Favored Son's" sanctity.  

I don't think it would be giving too much or even unbalancing if it were, like "Uber"-Biel-Tan, *free*.  Rather, rightly so.

The biggest "something for nothing" that Ulthwé gets is Strategy Rating 5... that's a *huge* ability and changes the game against *every* other army; even Marines have to worry about table edge or getting their spaceship in first when playing against Ulthwé.

All the premiums and restrictions and changes compared to other Eldar lists are paying for that SR5... and, at times, I feel they still might not be paying enough for it.

The SoK *might* go down to +25 points... but I want to see some games played with it first.

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You are so correct Chroma.

The Ulthwe bonus is SR5 and Black Guardians. They don't need anything else.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
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SR5 is best thing ulthwe gets, but everything else is just a some kind of downgrade. It is fine, because SR5 must be paid somehow, just that there is no need for change the list too far. (...just make seer council's cost 75pts and voila, list is finished!)

Still IMHO biel-tan is much more powerful craftworld, because it has a lot more tools and relying purely on SR won't win many games.

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Rats Keep Running...

Dark Eldar Dracon

Just curious...


What is the reasoning behind substituting Falcons for Wave Serpents when you can't get enough Falcons to carry all the Black Guardians?

thanks!    

Well you still have a further two wave serpents to transport your remaining BG. Its a way of preventing you having an eight strong falcon formation that activates on a 1+.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

You still wouldn't be able to transport anything due to unit coherency, no?

Er... what does unit coherency have to do with anything?

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

konate you replace up to two wave serpeants with two falcons each, you can still transport everything.

Chroma, I believe he thought you could only transport part of the formation. So coherency would come into play as the transports would be slowed down by the infantry.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

The option replaces 1 Wave Serpent with 2 Falcons, so there is enough transport capacity to carry everyone.

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Neal

Yep, that's what I thought.

Now I see its 2-for-1 Falcons for Wave Serpents, not 2-for-2; meaning 4 transports no matter which options you choose.

thanks for clearing that up for me!

Eight "slots" total, regardless of the mix... lotsa points if you go Falcon heavy... *laugh*

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?