I think the hellblade must not have any armour save. In addition, perhaps increasing its range to 30cms but only AP5+? They are not meant for ground attacks anyway.

What about the berzerkers having CC 3+ and extra attacks(+1)?

I've been also thinking about the dreadclaws. Aren't they supposed to be more like an aircraft rahter than a drop pod?

For the rules, they can be an astartes drop pod that loses the deathwind attack, but has more accuracy (i.e. You may place the dreadclaw 30cm around the landing spot instead of 15cm)

The hellblade armour save is to represent it's extreme maneuverability rather than armour (like the Land Speeder). Increasing its range is very controversial and there are those that would agree with you on that one. However, remember that with 30cm range and fighter manuverability it can evade any defensive weapon mounted on a thunderhawk or other bomber.

I'd be willing to look at an "extra attack with reduced CC" change to bezerkers, as they seem to be under-used. 2x3+ is quite a boost, however.

Dreadclaws: I agree and I've been thinking something along the same lines. How about you lose the Deathwind but you're allowed to re-roll the scatter dice if you wish?

Berzerkers are fine IMO.

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Thanks for the quick reply.

As for the armour save in the hellblades, as commented before, jink does quite the job for the maneuverability, which can be represented in those extra 15cm of range when attacking other crafts. That's why i've suggested dropping the AP to 5+. Hellblades excel in dogfights, but are very weak in ground attacks. If you have played Aeronautica imperialis you'll know what I am talking about.  

For the berzerkers, bear in mind that ork nobs cost 35 points. They have Armour 4+, CC 3+, FF 5+, 2xAP6+/AT6+, extra attacks(+1), and leader. Drop the leader and the range weapons, add fearless and there you go...

Drop pods would be much better than dreadclaws if dreadclaws lost the deathwind attack and were given only a re-roll in the scatter dice. They are supossed to be controlled once they have been launched. That's why i've suggested changing slightly the drop coordinates once you know where your opponent has deployed. Perhaps moving up to 15cm the drop coordinates before rolling the scatter dice?

3+ extra attack is too good for bezerkers, it's a huge jump over the current. 4+ extra attack is more palatable, as it's "one up" from their current CC abilities, but I'm not convinced even that is neccesary.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

To me effective Hellblades might just resolve the AA issues in the list, they're fluffy, characterful, and have a model!

It's also not that easy to ensure that you can repel ground attacks with them, you've got to spend an activation putting them on CAP in order to do that, and the situation on the ground might require those early activations elsewhere.

I don't think the 30cm range is out of the question, provided the points match it.

Like I said, Hellblades are a much-debated subject. However 1) the weapon stats really should match other weapons in the game. Yes, aircraft weapons tend to be the exception, but nevertheless, it's a good idea to try and be as consistent as possible (plus I'd never hear the end of "why don't the reapers have AP4+?"). 2) There is simply a huge difference between 15cm and 30cm aircraft weapons - and there are more and more range 30cm interceptors in the game. What's the point of those defensive weapons on bombers? With range 30cm, we're going to have more elite fighters and they'll be expensive. With range 15cm, we're talking about cheap, numerous fighters. They have a greater fire-arc to represent their maneuverability and dog-fighting ability.

Bezerkers I think could do with 2xCC4+ (as zombocom says, 2xcc3+ is probably a little good unless they need a big boost) but unless there's a defined issue with bezerkers I'm inclined not to change them.

Moving the drop coordinates is a possibility but actually I'd say even just re-rolling the dice is a fairly big advantage. Normally I'd go for the most simple solution (re-rolling the dice) but the drop pod rules are pretty convoluted to begin with. I would think being able to place the dreadclaws anywhere in a 30cm diameter circle around the drop zone might not be considered a pretty big advantage? Too big?

Compared to losing 5+ attacks against *every* enemy unit within 15cm of the drop point?  

You're losing a seriously powerful ability dropping the (non-existant in 40k) Deathwind attack from the Dreadclaws... with the attack, you're placing lots of Blast markers, taking out enemy units before you assault, etc... losing that is huge.

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Deathwind is awesome, losing it is a big disadvantage that should be in some way replaced.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I could agree with leaving the hellblades and zerkers the way they are now. But if you remove drop pods to add dreadclaws you need to give them something better instead of the deathwind attack. I usually play with drop pods and the deathwind attack has proven very useful.

Maybe this is part of my own bias towards using Daemons, but I really think that Deathwind + Marines + Daemons is usually overkill (I have only played a couple of games with drop pods in my Chaos Army), I'd gladly trade greater accurracy off against the Deathwind attack, but as I say maybe that's just me On the other hand, I suppose this would be an extra special rule for the army, and if the dreadclaws become too accurate I guess they just become another source of what one of my opponents likes to call 'Daemon Bombs'. To my mind, either a re-roll or the larger distance from the drop point seem to be ok, neither one is a massive departure from the existing rules and especially as Chaos are paying for their dreadclaws seem worthwhile (I must admit I've pretty much given up on drop formations in favour of Teleporting Terminators, but even they have been letting me down of late).

I don`t use demons. Not that I think they are bad (which totally aren`t) but I prefer a non deamonic army. You have a point there. But you can also do that with the current drop pods. Maybe just say that if a detachment goes in dreadclaws they can´t have a demonic pact?

I'd be willing to accept that a re-roll on the scatter might not be considered as good as the Deathwind (incidentally, in 40K, any drop-pod can have a Deathwind launcher and pure-Deathwind pods are still alive and kicking - they received a datafax in this month's white dwarf). That said, the ability to affect accuracy and/or placement of troops is often worth its weight in gold. This is a mistake GW makes quite often - for example (in 40K Chaos armies) the lash psychic power moves enemy troops and icons affect how much your own troops scatter when teleporting. Both are severely undercosted in Codex Chaos Space Marines - when Codex Daemons came out, both were more expensive and more limited.

Now, yes, I know just how nasty the Deathwind is, that said, you have to have enemy units within 30cm of your nominated LZ. If you've misjudged your LZ then the Deathwind attack is useless. Going back to Shermo's suggestion of increasing the range from the nominated LZ to 30cm: you can land your dreadclaw 30cm from the nominated LZ. You can effectively place your formation up to 15cm away from that, so that's 45cm away. You can then assault into base-to-base any enemy within a further 15cm. So 60cm total, as compared with 45cm normally. 60cm radius is an area of 11,300cm2. 45cm radius is an area of 6,350cm2. (Bear in mind there are only 22,300cm2 on the board!)

So the bottom line is that an increased 15cm range almost doubles the "strike area" of the pod. I'm not saying that's necessarily bad, just lets be aware of how much of an effect this will have. It's difficult to quantify how much of an effect this will have on the game, but obviously the Deathwinds are better if your opponent has lots of troops sitting right on the LZ, while if you've no enemy anywhere near the LZ the redirect will be better. Personally, I would guess the "redirect" is probably vastly more valuble than the Deathwind (but perhaps I'm just no good at placing LZs?)

I suppose another option would be to just increase the spacecraft cost a bit and make the dreadclaws a 'free' upgrade, without the deathwind. I suppose the more advanced guidance of the dreadclaws compared to Imperial drop pods could be written off as the loyalist scum are being dropped from a spacecraft dedicated to planetary assults, offsetting their lower-tech drop pods somewhat.