Well I got lucky on EBAY.

Mainly because I was the only one bidding due to them being title "Epin" instead of "Epic"

12 rhinos
10 thudd guns
10 mole launchers
10 heavy weapons trikes
14 bases of bikes
4 hearthguard on trikes
20 bases of infantry

$18 CAD

Now to score some super heavies.

Congrats on the big score.  It does often pay to search extensively on eBay.  Even when there is no mistake made, sometimes auctions are simply missed.  I once got about $300 worth of new metal titans and Space Marines for less than $100.  The guy was furious and charged me massively for the shipping which I gleefully paid anyway.  

From looking over the Demiurg list it seems like its a rehash of the Thurgrimm list with different names.
Maybe I'm not reading it right because its a pain on the eyes due to its layout in the forum? heh

I mean...would rogue squats/nomadic squats really have access to Leviathans and the ultra heavy gear? Wouldn't they be using more looted Imperium vehicles?

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

the original versions of both lists were developed independently. They were consolidated in terms of stats to eliminate the level of confusion created by the extensive differences. A summary of all our discussions be found within these development threads.

Regardless of consoldation, organizationally, both lists are designed to play differently. Limiting what units might be available is something for special scenarios, not a "tournament" list.

Thanks for reading everything, we hope you get a chance to play them soon, it would be great to get more feedback on the latest version.

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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)

I can contribute with some material. Fiction etc. I'll just toss it your way and you can do what you will with it.

I have a few very good artist friends and I'll also drop a line to them if they can do me up a few pieces.

ok  - [URL=null]thread discussing background and development post Nids[/URL

Associated art thread -

40K rules development and new units

BFG development (Don't know aything about this sorry)

I can't speak for anyone else there, but I've several technical fluff pieces on the overlord, the hellbore and the landtrain that I offer.

Certainly there's a good 18months worth of collabarative work in those threads - please check with people if you do want to use it.

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My shifting projects

Anyone wishing to contribute ANYTHING (fiction ideas, artwork, technical stuff, whatever) to this project can email me at moscovian@hotmail.com and I will disseminate the info out to the right people.  If your information comes from another source other than yourself (especially if it comes from GW) then please let me know.  I don't want to get into a situation where we're plagiarizing their work inadvertently.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

AN IDEA:

For the "present" Demiurg list, does it make sense to give them stubborn?
With their race almost extinct DESPITE being stubborn, surly dwarf bounders wouldn't they be holding life as maximum importance?

ya, they fight hard as nails, but he who flees lives to fight another day if its strategically viable.

Has a different special rule for the "present" list been tossed around?

Maybe something to do with their extensive mining and defensive background?
I mean I'm sure the Demiurg have some exceptional digging lasers etc of some kind and are experts at defensive opertaions due to their underground strongholds they had etc.
How about a special ability that reflects this. ie. Infantry stands that dont move during their turn or engage the enemy count as having cover saves at the end of their turn. This goes away if they move.

I'll be honest, I dont understand the rules in and out so I dont know if this would actually be a decent or viable benefit at all.

Regarding the fluff I can see a company of Demiurg storming towards an objective under fire with their heavier assets rolling along slowly in the background.
The engineers in the squads pull out their mining/rock lasers and blast out trenchs in a matter of minutes.

This gives the Demiurg a more "take & hold" strategy while they wait for the lumbering monstrosities to catch up with the advanced force.

It also leaves the Thurgrimm list as an "assault" list with the stubborn rule giving Squat players a choice of how they want to play their army. Offensive or defensive.

Humble ideas. I dont mean to run out of nowhere and try to change the course of a development that's been going on alot longer then I've been around.

hmm I like the sounds of what they are hashing out from a game stand point for the racial special ability in the "stubborn" thread.
If not in the form of their racial special is there a way to include them "creating" fortifications on the battlefield for their own formation?
The more I read about squats the more I see evidence that they cant & wont be moved against their will unless well...a Tyranid hive fleet lays and egg on them.

Maybe adding a "Demiurg Engineer" as a character upgrade.


Demiurg Engineer
Infantry Only
Character
Master crafted weapon  Assault weapons  MW +1 Attack
Note: Engineer, Invulnerable Save

*ENGINEER*
Activate the formation to create Fortifications for all Infantry stands in the unit. If this formation moves in any way the fortification bonus is lost.

The more I read over the Demiurg list as I start to see my squats trickling in from online...the more I see their lists as 1 trick ponies. Like....3 legged 1 trick ponies whos only trick is to fall over.

For a race near extinction their list is almost purely an infantry list with zoomy motorbikes filling the gaps as "armour formations".

Sure they have leviathans etc, but with the 1/3 of points restriction you'll see as many of them as the super heavies in other armies. The drawback being that the other armies HAVE a decent selection of armoured formations/vehicles to pull regular formations from.

I'd like to maybe suggest again the introducton of looted imperial vehicles for the Demiurg. I honestly dont think this would make them a Guard "clone army", but it may help fill the gap.(and it actually fits the fluff thats been laid out. How hard would it be for them to reverse engineer a vehicle and crank em out? NOT hard for these technilogical wonder dwarfs.))

Even if these looted vehicles had 0-2 for a formation per 5k points or something like that...it would help.

I'd say within the next month I'll be able to have my stuff up and painted and give this current list a go and see how it flows. Guess I cant smack the cat TOO much before actually trying it myself;)

Panzerbunny,

Your comments are not being ignored.  I know ePilgrim and and Jaldon are both very busy with work.  They will probably respond to some of your concerns after the New Year.  I think you bring up some good points - whether or not those points translate into list changes is to be determined.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Either way I'll give the current list a go...formulate some thoughts...put some ideas down on paper myself.

Its x-mas. SOME people dont hold TACcom as a priority..SHEESH.......heresy....

I think you will find that these armies are much more than you give them credit for. After you have tried them or faced them with any other Epic list your opinion might change.

No one who has faced them found them to be gimmicky (or one-trick).

There are many reasons for the list structures most of which are articulated in the various development threads. For the Demiurg, as that is my own work, the list is intended to be used as a combined arms army. What makes this different is the fact that you use the various formation to support each other as opposed to adding upgrades to each formation.

As Mosc said some of us are phenomeonally busy due to the last finacial quarter...dispite the gloom I am busier than ever as the ground shifts constantly in my sector. Regardless we do find time to glance at the threads and I thank you for your interest.

Regarding your idea of an Engineer character, it has a nice ring to it, but as suggested it is not right for the Demiurg as they are with few exceptions a very mobile army with a good saving throw already. Letting them build redoubts in-game seems a like a little too much of an advantage...perhaps there is a way to tone it down or alter it in some manner while still giving off a unique theme or effect.

_________________
Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)

I appreciate all the effort that you and others have put into the list so far and am by no means attempting to walk in and bash things around.

When I say 1 trick pony I meant that your options are very limited for a list.
I like the flow of the upgrades its just I think the units to upgrade lack diversity. (ie. Infantry, more infantry, some guys on bikes.

The backgrounds that have been written are sound and interesting, but I dont think this updated list reflects the time its based in and the effort you've put into flushing out the new setting.

With the inclusion of air power and the state of the Demiurg race at this point in the timeline it just doesn't seem right that infantry is such a HUGE part of the list. Not to mention a vehicle like the landtrain which has a big nuke from high orbit target on it.

I'm an infantry player myself and love a good horde, but it doesn't seem right.

These squats are supposed to be renegades/pirates of sorts, salvaging and taking what they need to help their race survive due to the Imperium tossing them to the wolves.

I see an opportunity here to give squat players, players who have been largely ignored for a grip of years, 2 different lists.
The Thurgrimm list which is traditional Squats and the Demiurg list which is something new with a twist.

I think a combined arms approach is a great idea, but there isn't much to combine.
They have the infantry and a light fast attack in the form of bikes/trikes.
They also have sort of artiller with thudds/mole mortars etc.
Air power? Overlords? Maybe.
Tanks and armoured formations to roll alongside the infantry units? Leviathans and the various spawns of it? Witht he 1/3 restriction you may have 1-2 in a small game.

The building blocks of a solid combined arms force are there. All I think that is missing is a medium tank unit of sorts. Do the iron eagles fill this gap?

I'm sure the topic will jumpstart in the new year and hopefully I'll get a chance to play the current build by late january.

I really hope you do get to play them. Iron Eagles do fill the tank platoon support role very well and Overlords are devastating if you adopt a combined arms via supporting formations strategy.

I am somewhat chagrined that you find the list limited; as all of my opponents have found themselves very challenged by the diverse nature of each formation. Based on all of the gaming experiences with them I have had none of you concerns have proven to be a flaw of the list.

If you are attempting to min/max certain portions of the list it will fail in grand fashion...it was designed to punish people who attemtpt it. Druing my discussions during development (circa 2005) this was clearly pointed out as a goal. a army that forces supporting formations in order to be effective.

PB, please play a few games and post bat-reps, it will help a great deal in evaluating you r concerns. Both Jaldon and I are long time Epic players and find the greatest value is in play examples.

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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)