I find Zombocom's suggestions a good compromise, so won't repeat them.

Just assume I CTRL-C/CTRL-V'd.

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For my point of view its that the old skimmer rule that allowed all skimmers this ability was widely disliked and (for epic) very quickly changed.

I think many of use are wary of bringing this back to the game.

I think making manta as a bomber is a bad solution. Especially with those stats Zombo proposed. Have you even use math to try to kill that with various AA-units? Making it aircraft boosts all things it is now hated for. (harder to shoot, can reach everywhere...)

I personally like support craft rule and weapon ranges and amount of firepower should be adjusted according that. ie. aircraft style. 45cms for some, 30cms for most and 60cms for main cannon and 15cms for defensive weapons. APU gives more possibilities, that is true, but it also takes more time.

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Dark Eldar Dracon

Have you even use math to try to kill that with various AA-units?

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Onyx and Charad (and anyone else against Manta as Bomber) I think we have to bite the bullet and play it as bomber just to disprove this theory. I think we have to play it this way or we'll never hear the end of it. If it's proven to be crap (as we think it is) then we can definitely say it sucks as bomber. If it's good, what have we lost? Personally I'm looking forward to hearing my opponents complain how broken it is, but I'll keep an open mind.

At the moment, my gaming time is very restricted and I simply can't justify spending all of it testing rules/units.

I want to play for fun aswell and I agree that my opponents are not going to be having much fun once their AA has been stripped away and this monster starts flying around the board with impunity.

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That's precisely what I want. All I want is to see if it's even feasible as a bomber. It's quite possible, likely even, that it's not.

But even if there's only a 1 in 4 chance of it working as a bomber, I think it's worth trying, because it just fits so much better that way.

If it proves broken as a bomber, I'll happily concede the idea and move on.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

We should badger Jstr to give it a go Friday.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Already have done

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

we're DnDing on Friday. So unless you come early we probably won't. I finish class at about
3 so I'm home sometime between 3:30 and 4.

True, idea is good to be tested and proven that it is right or wrong. I'd like to read your reports from those battles. Due to lack of time for wargames nowadays it is nice to have units thinked as far as possible on an idea level, so we can all enjoy our precious gaming time.

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Rats Keep Running...

Dark Eldar Dracon

By all means, go ahead and test the Manta-as-Bomber.  I'm also in the camp of 'it's not going to work, even reduced to 5DC', but play may prove me wring just as much as it may prove me right.

I had a thought about the Manta v. Moray issue.  

What if we bump the Moray up a little in DC, and leave the armament as it currently is, and then reduce the Manta to the FW weapons?  This puts the Moray as a dedicated gunship, taken when you need to kill lots of Titans and the Manta as the more lightly-armed 'assault transport' (for putting forces into a hot LZ and supporting them with fire after arriving).  This assumes that both are support craft.

(Essentially trading the roles the Manta and Moray fill right now)

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Anyone managed to test this Manta/bomber theory yet?

Yeah, we got one test game in with it. Turn one it landed, dropped off troops and did some killing, but took 2 DC of damage and 5 blasts while on the ground. Turn 2 it didn't turn up. Turn 3 it landed to claim an objective.

Too early to tell either way really, but no huge immediate problems came up.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

How much was the points value of the Manta?

It doesn't sound like it had the value of a 650pt+ unit.

Can aircraft claim objectives on the turn that they land ("Aircraft which have landed may not capture an objective on the same turn that it lands. However, a landed aircraft may immediately contest an objective" - 2008 Errata)?

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.