In regard to Tau and TK weapons... do they really need many?

The net effect of CC3+ is that they score a hit on Inf, AV and WE on a 3+ when in base to base, whether that is using Chainswords, Bolt Pistols or Melta Bombs is irrelevant in game terms.

(though there are indeed people out here who´d live to follow 40k to the latter and represent everything with +1 Extra Attack (whatever))

Do the Tau need TK?

No.
There are plenty of armies that have to work around large WEs, so not being able to shoot up a Warlord-class machine is not game breaking.

Should the Tau have some TK?

Yes.
They are supposed to be shooty and high-tech. The fluff-sages point us to the AX-1-0, which, in conjunction with massed AT, should be able to take out Reaver-Class targets and break if not destroy a Warlord.
While aircraft can indeed be countered, so can everything else, that´s what´s wargaming is all about in a nutshell.

I´d hate to see foolproofed systems like the pre-reform Deathstrikes and Vultures ever again.

The Manta, through sheer size, modelly loveliness and its BFG ancestry deserves TK as well, but currently its massive firepower detracts from the transport role. IMO it should barely be Reaver-level in its output, and cost less then.
I view the "Bomber" suggestions as unworkable, with 45cm ranges it could stay out of the worst flak and shrug of the rest.

As to the Moray, well, APU, repricing and downgunning fixes its stats, whether the Tau should have a flying Shadowsword in the first place I´m not sure.

I´d prefer dependency on combined arms and non-perfect tools, everyone else is expected to deal with difficulties after all!

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Dobbsy, how many MW sources are there?  Crisis, Tigershark, AX10, Moray, Manta, and Scorpfish.  That's 6 MW+TK sources, 2 of which are aircraft.  One is really short-range, but the last 3 are currently 75+cm attacks.

Re: Assault Marines.  Similarly, Tau FW *could* have EMP grenades, which basically kill a vehicle about 1/12 of the time, per FW using them.  Get 12 FW on a vehicle, it's DEAD.  EMP 'nades are ineffective against infantry, as are meltabombs.  Since the E:A ruleset doesn't support a CC weapon that is only effective against one type of target, they aren't in E:A statlines.

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Dobbsy, how many MW sources are there?  Crisis, Tigershark, AX10, Moray, Manta, and Scorpfish.  That's 6 MW+TK sources, 2 of which are aircraft.  One is really short-range, but the last 3 are currently 75+cm attacks.

I never said that Tau had "many" TK weapons, I asked if they *NEEDED* many TK weapons...

Would only having TK on a couple of aircraft-type units cripple their ability to deal with war engines is my curiousity.

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Hmm, I never expected 3 vehicles with TK to be "many".

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

One of the things I've tried to do with the AMTL list in particular is drastically constrain (Useful) activations; Any 3.x AMTL army list will be very short on activations and will have to make each one count, or the enemy will simply out-activate them and grab all the objectives.

The single easiest way to beat AMTL is to lay a blast marker on each Titan and wait for the AMTL player to roll a few 1's to activate... with so few activations, getting off orders properly is critical to the army, as is husbanding what few activations you do start with until the end of the game (So you have enough units left to capture some objectives).


That's the AMTL's big weakness, by the way, you don't beat them by killing their Titans, you beat them by winning the game.    

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I never said that Tau had "many" TK weapons, I asked if they *NEEDED* many TK weapons...

Fair enough, I just think that "many" does not mean 3 and is far from overkill.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Background-wise Tau are supposed to be below average at titan killing, that's what the background on the AX-1-0 basically says.

I'm basing all my arguments on Tau vs Titan warfare on Taros, since that's the only source we have for Tau vs Titans.

Surely it's better to follow what we have than blindly make things up?

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

As a player with an interest in the Tau becoming a Tournament accepted list, but not playtesting myself at the moment, I would like to ask this question.

What would the effect be to the Tau list if the Moray was dropped completely?

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There would be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth and the world would end - - -

- - But IMHO the list would still be viable.

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Actually Tim asks a very good question :- Theoretically, which units could be dropped from the Tau list while still keeping it viable?

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What would the effect be to the Tau list if the Moray was dropped completely?

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