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EA Tau - Rules Questions
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: EA Tau - Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:57 am 
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Quote: (Hena @ 14 Oct. 2008, 11:43 )

Read my last batrep if you think they are not useful.

You're so black and white!

I never said Fire Warriors aren't useful, only that they're not as useful/cheap in £££ as having a GM/tank-based army.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: EA Tau - Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:36 pm 
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If there is one of two formations of Stingrays, is that too prevalent?

When you're regularly spending a quater or more of your points on non-canon units, the list is placing too much reliance on them.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: EA Tau - Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:44 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 14 Oct. 2008, 12:42 )

Actually a good GM army has a fair number of firewarriors as they are the cheapest gateway unit. The battle plan doesn't centre around them though.

lol perhaps... I would have seen the extra 50pts for Crisis suits as well-spent, being as they then leap off to grab objectives under the shadow of the guided missiles... you're the one who's most extensively tested GM hordes however.

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Ginger
 Post subject: EA Tau - Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:02 pm 
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Umm, I was not checking for the units, but rather how effective you felt the Tau should generally be at the different ranges. So it would seem that you think they should be equally good a Long and Medium ranges?




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Onyx
 Post subject: EA Tau - Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:44 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 14 Oct. 2008, 19:36 )

If there is one of two formations of Stingrays, is that too prevalent?

When you're regularly spending a quater or more of your points on non-canon units, the list is placing too much reliance on them.

Emphasis added by me.

Again, what does it matter that they are non-canon...
What does matter is their stats, abilities costs.

Why not just say Stingrays or Scorpionfish?
As has already been said, if they get into the final list, they're canon.

What if, by some miracle, the eventual stats/abilities/costs of these units are ok with everyone. Are you still going to complain because these units don't exist in any fluff that you can find? Is your problem that they are made up or, in your opinion, too good (2 very seperate issues)?

Everytime someone writes non-canon, made up etc, it becomes a lot harder to take their complaints seriously (whether the complaint is valid or not).

Where are the crusades against the Death Wheel or the Obelisk or the warbarque?  :sulk:

I'm not trying to gag anyone, just trying to point out the futility of saying " those units aren't in my book so you can't have them'.

On another note, thanks for the heads up Captain Jack and E&C about Tau background. Hopefully, I'll be able to read some more of this info and make my own interpretations, rather than having to have others give me theirs.  :agree:

Anyway... It's late and I'm off to sleep (actually, I think I'm already half asleep now) :sleep: .

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: EA Tau - Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:12 pm 
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Quote: (Onyx @ 14 Oct. 2008, 16:44 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 14 Oct. 2008, 19:36 )

If there is one of two formations of Stingrays, is that too prevalent?

When you're regularly spending a quater or more of your points on non-canon units, the list is placing too much reliance on them.

Emphasis added by me.

Sometimes it matters because when you are spending almost 60% of your points on units that don't exist in the Warhammer 40,000 background, the army doesn't really look like a Tau army anymore, at least not a 'normal' Tau army... a variant Sept, maybe.

As has already been said, if they get into the final list, they're canon.
Jervis won't ratify the Tau list. Unless he's changed his opinion at some point in the last few months (Perhaps CS can correct me), the NetEA Tau list will never become official.

What if, by some miracle, the eventual stats/abilities/costs of these units are ok with everyone. Are you still going to complain because these units don't exist in any fluff that you can find? Is your problem that they are made up or, in your opinion, too good (2 very seperate issues)?

Made up units are okay if there is a clear need for them.

I don't think that the 'core' Tau list needs most of the made up units in the NetEA list in order to make it a good representation of the Tau in the Warhammer 40,000 background.

- Do the units reinforce the 'Tau' feel to the list?  - No, most of them distort the play style of the Tau list into a 'gunline' style.

- Do the units fill unique roles?  - No, most of them overlap with existing units. For example the TK Moray overlaps with the AX-1-0, the Stingray overlaps with the Skyray, etc.

I need someone to justify the inclusion of the various made up units in their current form in the core NetEA Tau list to me.

Now if they had their stats altered so that they reinforced the Tau theme instead of distorted it...

Where are the crusades against the Death Wheel or the Obelisk or the warbarque?  :sulk:
Those units reinforce the theme of their respective army lists. I contend that most of the made up units in the NetEA Tau list distort the theme.


On another note, thanks for the heads up Captain Jack and E&C about Tau background. Hopefully, I'll be able to read some more of this info and make my own interpretations, rather than having to have others give me theirs.  :agree:
Cheers. Imperial Armour III is my favourite Forgeworld book.

You will also find in there not only Tau background, but Forgeworld's Tau list.




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zombocom
 Post subject: EA Tau - Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:32 pm 
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i think the issue of canon/non-canon is one we can sidestep for now. Having most of the non-canon units in the list is a compromise I can live with, as long as they are tuned in the right direction, as seems to be happening with the Moray.

On a different note, Fire Warriors are supposed to be the mainstay of the list, should the list structure be changed to reflect this and make them mandatory? Given the decent DRM proxy the expense isn't quite the issue it once was.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: EA Tau - Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:35 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 14 Oct. 2008, 17:32 )

On a different note, Fire Warriors are supposed to be the mainstay of the list, should the list structure be changed to reflect this and make them mandatory? Given the decent DRM proxy the expense isn't quite the issue it once was.

I'd be quite happy if there was a minimum ammount of Fire Warriors required, as long as the stipulated minimum scaled with the size of game being played.




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zombocom
 Post subject: EA Tau - Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:35 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 14 Oct. 2008, 17:35 )

Quote: (zombocom @ 14 Oct. 2008, 17:32 )

On a different note, Fire Warriors are supposed to be the mainstay of the list, should the list structure be changed to reflect this and make them mandatory? Given the decent DRM proxy the expense isn't quite the issue it once was.

I'd be quite happy if there was a minimum ammount of Fire Warriors required (Let's say 1 out of every 2 Cadres must be Fire Warriors).

That's what I was thinking.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: EA Tau - Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:51 pm 
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Cybershadow wants the NetEA Tau list to be 'all in one', and that includes tank-themed, WE-themed, etc, so I don't see that rule making the chop here.

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zombocom
 Post subject: EA Tau - Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:23 pm 
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"all in one" doesn't have to mean all builds are possible, just all units are available. It's surely possible to make a WE or AV themed list with a core of FW?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: EA Tau - Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:30 pm 
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The impression I get is that Cybershadow wants all the iconic themes in one list, not just all the units.

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