That's largely why I stopped playing 40k, the rules are a mess (and I really don't like some stuff from 5e AT ALL).

That said, if we want to get fresh blood into the game, we need to look at how the Tau play in 40k.  Yes, I know that Marines appear to play differently in E:A than in 40k, until you see them in an Engage action.  Marines in an Engagement play just like they do in 40k, hitting very hard and taking few casualties.  The challenge with Marines in E:A is getting them into the engagement in the first place.

Tau currently play like the boring gunline of 40kv3, when they haven't played like that for 5 years in 40k.  Tau Empire was the first non-marine codex in 4e, so there's been a lot of time for people to figure out how the army plays most effectively.  4e/5e Tau play most effectively at FF ranges.  For comparison, 12 FW (a full squad) will kill 10 Guardsmen (or 8 orks, or 2.67 Marines) with average dice in ONE TURN of shooting at close range.  Those guardsmen's 10 buddies will kill 2.5 FW in return.  Multiply that by 4-6 squads of FW (ignoring their DFish for a moment), and I can evaporate a lot of an army in very short order.

Because FW operate so close to the enemy, they have a good chance of getting assaulted (or would if anything survives their attack).

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Isn't Epic all about Maneuver Warfare?  The Tau are the current definition of Blitzkrieg/Maneuver Warfare in 40k, and the E:A Tau list doesn't encourage maneuver-to-fire behavior by it's very design.

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So are you all for very very good 15 and 30cm firepower (high values to hit, lots of Ignore cover, Disrupt and maybe MW and the high values meaning you can hit whilst doubling and destroy when sustaining) to simulate that?

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No, I think he wants non-artificially lowered FF values... which is off the table.

I'd support a *radical* overhaul of the Tau stats/design ethos.

I look at it as the same time of possible "watershed" moment as I had with the Tyranids when I finally changed my mind about them "never" taking Blast markers... it radically changed the army... for the better.

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Frankly, I think refusing to even let us discuss FF values is a bad move.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I'm fine with it - higher FF values and it becomes very similar to both IG and Eldar FF army builds. How would you propose to differentiate it effectively if FF4+ was the order of the day?

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I'm not saying FF values should be raised, I just think that telling us we can't even consider it as an option is a poor choice.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Well, essentially, it would just be Fire Warriors, and perhaps Battle Suits, that would have FF4+; Tau would still have long range, elite, skimming tanks and vehicles... with much fewer inspiring units that either IG or Eldar, and still be crap at CC.

The other special rules, high-tech weapons, and combined arms approach would differentiate it from other armies, since they wouldn't *have* to rely on FF as their mainstay.  And such a change would *really* give Fire Warriors a place in the army.

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They would also have no real weakness. Currently their assault weakness is only partially mitigated. With good FF (and with armour 5+) they wouldn't have any problems against CC troops. If they keep their skimmers up in front, non infiltrating assault troops would be totally stuffed as opposed to partially as currently (facing only 5+ attacks).

You would also see air assault from Manta and Orcas become standard tactics. Tau are already ok assault troops when attacking as the normal problem faced by Eldar and Guard, no armour on their big formations, is bypassed.

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General Plumer, 191x

So then we'd be seeing the appropriate number of Fire Warriors in play...  

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Well, something has to be done to make people take FW, as they are supposed to form the vast majority of Tau armies.

Personally I'd make them the only unit with markerlights, and make gms only firable if lit.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

What about if the FW armour save was reduced to 6+? As I understand it the 5+ is to reflect the shield drones present with all Tau units. We have Drones available as an upgrade so why do they need such a high Armour save? (I know the drone formation are Gun Drones but as an upgrade to FW's they become shield drones aswell)

With a reduced Armour save, the FF could be increased to 4+ to help balance the Fire Warriors. If they want extra protection then Drones must be payed for as an upgrade and then used wisely to protect the Fire Warriors rather than being an abstract factor. Once the Drones are gone the Fire Warriors would still be dangerous but would become quite fragile.

I admit I haven't put much thought into this, it's something that occured to me just now and I thought I'd share it.

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I had a similar thought Onyx. But like CS said, this is off the table guys. This is, again, academic.