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Tau special rules

 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:56 pm 
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As far as the Manta is concerned, a Manta is large enough that a Manta counter in BFG is considered to be a single Manta.  Thunderhawks are roughly 3 to a BFG formation.

There's a fluff piece about the Manta that says it's a fully-capable spaceship that only lacks an 'ether drive' (not sure if that's an FTL drive).  That means a Messenger-class starship is almost (possibly) small enough to show up on-table, since a Messenger is basically a Tau FTL drive with enough ship to keep the pilot alive.

So, theoretically a Manta or three could be let loose as a Tau ship entered the system, and could proceed under their own power to the target planet while their FTL carrier went and distracted the system defense ships.  That's how a Manta can planetfall without needing a Spaceship in low orbit.

Of course, I actually like the FW Manta stats more than I like the SG stats (with a points drop to ~650 or so).

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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:59 am 
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Yes, the Manta could be deployed far away and then proceed to a planet by itself.

With FTL / Ether Drive I guess you mean Warp Dive Drive? Necrons have FTL, Tau make dives into the area between Warp and realspace.

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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:56 pm 
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So could the thunderhawk. They're quite capable of traveling from one planet to another in a system.

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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:24 pm 
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But are THawks capable of stealthing in from the edge of a system like the Mantas are?

No, they still need a carrier to get far enough in-system to be able to land on a planet.

Also, where's the mention of this capability in fluff?  It's stated flat-out in Codex:Tau (that's the 3e one) that a Manta has this capability, while I've never read anything about a THawk being able to do that.

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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:52 am 
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Left to my own devices I would par everything down to

COORDINATED FIRE
Left as is. The 'big one' for the Tau.

MARKERLIGHTS AND GUIDED MISSILES
Either leave as is or go with Dobsy's suggestion of taking the no LoF bit out and making it part of sustaining. If really pressed drop and abstract. Simpler, though less 'fun'.

TAU DRONES
Expendable, but only when at least one non expendable unit is in the formation.

TAU SUPREME COMMANDER
I would drop it entirely and just give the Tau SC co-ord fire in addition to supreme commander. One stand having the commander ability does nothing to really affect the anti assault bias in the list, so its out (maybe its farsight!).

TAU JET PACKS
Scrap and either make them use the Eldar hit and run rules (my favourite) or the skimmer rules (not my favourite).

TAU DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
Scrap current rule, make it a flat 5+ save.

ROBOTIC SENTRY
Scrap, use fearless and scout instead.

SUPPORT CRAFT & Self Planetfall
Ignore until everyone comes to more of a consensus.

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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:30 pm 
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With all the discussion lately my views have small adjustements to the special rules

I'll copy TRC here and add my views if needed ...

COORDINATED FIRE
Left as is. The 'big one' for the Tau.

MARKERLIGHTS AND GUIDED MISSILES
If we tone down the turrets(as below)leaving as is can still work. If not my proposal could be a possible solution to this issue but that's for others to decide in-large.

TAU DRONES
Independent formations take BMs like any other formation.

TAU SUPREME COMMANDER
Keep it, as it is different to a normal SC as it doesn't have commander and has Co-ord.

TAU JET PACKS
if an opponent to the rule can come around to it (Jstr19) then I think it can stay as is

TAU DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
Scrap current rule, make it a flat 5+ save.

ROBOTIC SENTRY
Scrap, use fearless and scout instead. I would like to try this

SUPPORT CRAFT & Self Planetfall
Scrap Self Planetfall - it's not fair to drop a "titan" anywhere on the board. Not sure about the support craft rule. I'm not keen on it as it stands.





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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:11 am 
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I'll copy dobbsy's list and add my views if needed (some small changes from my previous thoughts).

COORDINATED FIRE
Left as is. The 'big one' for the Tau.

MARKERLIGHTS AND GUIDED MISSILES
If we tone down the turrets (as below) leaving as is can still work. If not dobbsy's proposal could be a possible solution to this issue.

TAU DRONES
Independent formations take BMs like any other formation.

TAU SUPREME COMMANDER
Keep it, as it is different to a normal SC as it doesn't have commander and has Co-ord.

TAU JET PACKS
If an opponent to the rule can come around to it (Jstr19) then I think it can stay as is.

TAU DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
Scrap current rule, make it a flat 5+ save.

ROBOTIC SENTRY
If any changes have to be made - Scrap, use fearless and scout instead (maybe also reduce the Armour Save to 6+?). This is totally preferable to just binning the unit.

SUPPORT CRAFT & Self Planetfall
Scrap Self Planetfall. Use normal Planetfall rules.
Leave Support Craft as is. It seems to me that too many are looking at it from one point of view (as in it's not fair, we can't hide from it). There's also the opponents point of view - concentrate all fire on the great big floating bullseye in the sky and bring it down (or at least break it - Something that has happened in just about every game that I've used Morays). Always popped up is impractical and overly-complicated. I'm sorry but I don't think it's worth the hassle.
You can't hide from planes and the Support Craft could be using the same airspace.




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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:41 am 
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Tau Jetpacks : Use the Skimmer rule.

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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:16 am 
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COORDINATED FIRE
Left as is. The 'big one' for the Tau.

MARKERLIGHTS AND GUIDED MISSILES
Lose the turrets, make Markerlights much rarer. The problem isn't with the rules but with the easy proliferation of ml units, which removes the tactical manouver requirements.

TAU DRONES
Exepndible, full drone formations take bms as normal.

TAU SUPREME COMMANDER
The very definition of an unneeded special rule. Either add coord fire to the unit or add a one line note to the coord fire rules.

TAU JET PACKS
i like skimmer or hit and run. This needs to change, as it is not fun to play against at the moment.

TAU DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
Scrap rule, make it a standard 6+ invulnerable save and adjust points accordingly. Does this really warrant a special rule?

ROBOTIC SENTRY
Scrap entirely.

SUPPORT CRAFT & Self Planetfall
Scrap Self Planetfall. Use normal Planetfall rules.

Always popped up, or just alter stats significantly and make it a bomber...




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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:32 pm 
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Incidentally the 'canon' GM units baring piranha aren't gm dependant. You get a magnified effect with stingrays and skorp's - anything which has GM's as teh main weapon system.

If they didn't exist how would you feel about gm's and markerlights then?

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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:50 pm 
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COORDINATED FIRE
I can take it or leave it.

MARKERLIGHTS AND GUIDED MISSILES
Lose the turrets, make Markerlights much rarer. The problem isn't with the rules but with the easy proliferation of ml units, which removes the tactical manouver requirements.

TAU DRONES
Expendable, full drone formations take bms as normal. I'm okay with this I think.

TAU SUPREME COMMANDER
The very definition of an unneeded special rule. Either add coord fire to the unit or add a one line note to the coord fire rules.

TAU JET PACKS
Hit N Run.

TAU DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
Have it match the Demiurg 4+ TK save and leave it at that.  MW and normal hits strike as normal.

ROBOTIC SENTRY
Save it for a Drone-heavy list.

SUPPORT CRAFT & Self Planetfall
Leave the Support Craft and self-planetfall alone.  Work on the unit stats instead.

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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:59 pm 
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So they are only worth it if dedicated GM carrying units are in the game? Well certainly explains why those units got invented!

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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:14 pm 
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TAU SUPREME COMMANDER
The very definition of an unneeded special rule. Either add coord fire to the unit or add a one line note to the coord fire rules

Hmm, so the SC would get Coord fire AND commander then eh? Effectively it's a different unit then isn't it? If we're dropping commander then a special rule is needed to describe why it has Coord fire only. Either way it's a different unit and requires a special rule.





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 Post subject: Tau special rules
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:19 pm 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 02 Oct. 2008, 23:14 )

TAU SUPREME COMMANDER
The very definition of an unneeded special rule. Either add coord fire to the unit or add a one line note to the coord fire rules

Hmm, so the SC would get Coord fire AND commander then eh? Effectively it's a different unit then isn't it? If we're dropping commander then a special rule is needed to describe why it has Coord fire only. Either way it's a different unit and requires a special rule.

Is having commander that big of a deal? It'll never be used.

And no, a dedicated special rule isn't needed, it could easily be merged with the coord-fire rules.

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