The major difference between artillery and the turrets is that the artillery can be suppressed, turrets can't. Also artillery is a valid activation so it hurts the guard player when it is broken/destroyed. Turrets are throw away units that have no draw back.

I've played 2 games against Tau with the sentries and the first time I tried to destroy them and used up activations attacking them for no effect. The second time I ignored them and moved away, taking casualties as a result. Really not much fun and my opponent only had one formation and had not maxed out on GM's.

Make turrets scout, fearless, move 0 and they form an excellent line

I'm sure that if you looked at my profile, you'd know that I've only been playing Epic (this time around, I played back in the early 90's) for 2 years. Turrets have always been available to me.

I have already stated that my win/loss ratio with or without Turrets is about the same. The only difference is that without Turrets I don't include as many GM's. Quite logical.

To keep asking the same question, which doesn't really help the discussion (although I'm sure you think that it does) seems unhelpful. All it might do is point out that I've only been playing for 2 years. Does that make my point of view less valid? I've used my Tau army (in many set-ups) a few dozen times and I think I've got something to contribute to this discussion.

Make turrets scout, fearless, move 0 and they form an excellent line

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Having multiple mobile Volcano Cannon / Laser Blaster platforms which can move 20/40cm forwards and then fire without needing to manuever to gain a true LOF* is not fair.


*Something normally reserved only for expensive and vulnerable artillery units that Sustain Fire.

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Having multiple mobile Volcano Cannon / Laser Blaster platforms which can move 20/40cm forwards and then fire without needing to manuever to gain a true LOF* is not fair

Sorry onyx, it wasn't about that, I just wasn't getting a sense from all bar a few people if they thought gm's worked pre turrets or not. I just assumed you were around playing then! (My extent of looking at profiles is to see if there is any chance anyone is near me!)


Time to shift to the Manta thread!

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Morays are relatively expensive (but I wouldn't mind paying 350/375 for it as is) and can't hide... "expensive and vulnerable" (please note that I support a change to the Deflector shields)

Manta's are slightly different because of the Self Planetfall rule. I don't have strong feelings about it either way but if it helps to keep people happy then I say make the Manta the same as the Thunderhawk, etc...KISS.

Sorry onyx, it wasn't about that

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Incidentally what armies do Tau play against over your way? Here its mostly marines and guard, with Eldar, Orks and BL following up and the last time I remember siege playing Tau was many years ago! Just interested in what armies can so swiftly deal with multiple Support craft, especially non Guard armies, as any long range platform, hell even warhounds, can be difficult to all break/deal with without certain weapon types.

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"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Mostly Guard (E&C's Ad Mech list {which we love}, Chroma's Cadian Srike Force list, E&C's Krieg list and good old Steel Legion) armies at the moment but they've also played against Eldar and Marines.

There will be another Eldar army and some Orks aswell as my own Iron Warriors soon (when I get a chance to paint them).

That should give us some more scope for feedback.

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I'd prefer to see the Manta's stats match the 40k stats more closely (Right now it has something like twice the long range firepower of the 40k Manta). It's supposed to be a heavily-armed transport not a Warlord Titan equivilent.

The Moray could probably do with losing one of its MW3+ TK(D3) shots, and putting the other to MW2+ TK(D3). The 6x AP3+/AT3+ version could probably do with going down to 4x shots, or specialising at either 6x AP3+ or 6xAT3+.

With those changes I feel that Morays would be a lot better at their current points cost.


Regardless of the stat changes above, I want to see 'Support Craft' changed to 'Always Popped Up Skimmer' so that the enemy has a chance to hide at long range, and 'Free Planetfall' dropped.

Mostly Guard (E&C's Ad Mech list {which we love}, Chroma's Cadian Srike Force list, E&C's Krieg list and good old Steel Legion) armies at the moment but they've also played against Eldar and Marines.

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I agree wholeheartedly. The Moray needs a nerf so that it goes back to a supporting role instead of a must-have unit.

I also like the "Always Popped-up" rule for SCs, but it is not absolutely necessary if overall SC firepower goes down.

Free Planetfall can go. Why is it in, anyway?

I'm not so sure about Tau, but with DE I have used self planetfall couple times and that is really welcomed addition to that list. Of course executor is around a half the firepower of manta...

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Dark Eldar Dracon

Is that beast for shooting though or assault/transport? For a shooting based unit the planetfall ability is dead handy as it ensures that a) you don't get shot by early activations like deathstrikes, very effective if combined with a popcorn army and b) you get a free move effectively into weapons range.

Maybe the Manta should be self planetfall, variation on slow and steady? So can drop itself but only on the 2nd turn onwards?
Or build in a weakness, say for example you have to roll a dice per dc and any 1's give you bm's like teleporting.
And/Or make the planetfall and subsequent activation seperate. So one roll to planetfall, another to activate and fight.
Or to go witht he SHT transport angle let it activate, but no movement or shooting on the turn it does this, just the planetfall (maybe a move as well) and unloading.
Or any combo of the above.

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Biggest advantage of free planetfall is (my opinion) that you don't miss a activation before planetfalling (space craft) and that enables nasty combos with retaining another useful unit (and possibly combine fire/ assault ability makes that extremely effective).

DE beast is a huge storm serpent for it's use. And surely it is handy tool to have.

Still I think it is a nice rule (free planetfall) to have and I'd rather adjust costs and other abilities according to current advantages it gives.

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Dark Eldar Dracon

Or leave the stats alone and increase the cost.

There is no such thing as over-powered, just under-priced.

I'd happily pay a bit more for them and leave the stats alone.

I can quite easily accept a small stat reduction (but still keeping 2 x Heavy Railcannon maybe at 90cm 3+ TK D3) to the Manta.

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