I've been thinking about the idea of giving GM's the Indirect Fire ability and I have to say it's growing on me (note this is not to give Tau Barrage Point weapons).

This would allow Scorpionfish and Stingrays (PLEASE don't keep on about removing them... ) etc to Sustain fire from behind cover and only give them +1 to hit (from Sustain action) rather than +2 (extra +1 from enemy being lit-up by turrets). Of course there are other units in the Tau armoury that have Markerlights for the +1 (Pathfinders, Tetras etc).

Of course the Tau GM's don't need the doubling of their range as other Indirect Fire BP weapons receive from the ability.

IF ALL Tau Guided Missiles were given Indirect Fire I could possibly support the removal of Markerlight Sentry Turrets (as long as ALL GM weapons don't get a range reduction).

I think that Drones (both types) should be kept in their present form but only be allowed as upgrades to other formations (ie not a formation in their own right). I can see what TRC (and others) are saying about the ability to spam the board with these cheap useful units.
How are drones used by the Tau? It seems to me that they are there to protect more valuable units. Making them upgrades to do this keeps them doing their job and cuts down on possible abuses.

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To be honest Hena, I really like the Guided missile rule and I agree I think it may remove some of the character, but in the pursuit of a more balanced list it may be necessary to alter the way Tau play to a slight degree - I discuss Scarik's/my view about the Indirect fire idea here :
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums....;st=15#

And funnily enough Onyx put up a pretty much similar idea which I hadn't even read so we may be onto something if three people can see it as a positive, at least... fingers crossed. Onyx's idea about Pathfinders etc still having MLs could be a fair trade off and focus the pathfinders even more (heck they may even get more use in lists). I think it could really solve a few issues people have. It's great to have a character for an army but if it's causing too many issues of balance then perhaps an adjustment is required. I think we could nut out a decent compromise about this idea. We prety much have already if others would agree to its trial.

I think it really could bring some balance to the force... Sorry I had to throw that one in it was just begging to be used  

I'm surprised by Jstr's remarks regarding the crisis suits. In a positive way of course! If his group can come around to the rule then we may be able to keep it and not worry about Hit n Run.    We can debate one less rule which i think is very positive.

On the Drone discussion I think we could really keep both types by just putting a higher cost on the stand alone drones. They have pretty good stats to cost them around 125-150 points really. Their fluff could just contain a sentence about how they are programmed for differing tasks when in stand alone formations. etc etc

Just to clarify, I'm not advocating the removal of the Guided Missile rule, just an addition to it that allows GM's to fire indirectly (with no range modifications).

I like the guided missile rules aswell but if you're gonna remove turrets ( ) then some adjustment is needed.

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When I have played against Tau with list of Guided Missiles they did not have turrets and they worked just fine.

Which was before the stingray change? Or after. Otherwise if you had loaded up on pre change 'rays you must have being doing something wrong not to dominate.

Replacing the GM rule with indirect is interesting. Makes things more predicatable, but really AT gm's in older list iterations were fine. AP gms wreck the list still if you want it to be including stuff like infantry. If you don't then they are fine as well.

GM's should be there to boost Tau long range (75cm) fire to IG standards I feel, to provide a boost to infantry formations (represented by their transports) and to link aircraft in with the ground forces in a suitably high tech way. They shouldn't replace anything or be the cornerstone of the army.


Agree on this. One might consider dropping AA from ion cannons as well?

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I would say they are equal.

Fluff wise thunderbolts have the edge in speed and experience, barracuda in manoeuvrability (which in dogfighting terms gives the thunderbolt a big advantage).

Both fighter bombers and save 6 (so both dogfight at 90 degrees and ground attack at 45)
Then its

TBolt
30cm AT4+ FF
30cm AP5+/AT6+/AA5+ (4+) FF
15cm AP4+/AA5+ (4+) FF

Best case AT - AT4+ AT6+, AP4+
Best case AP - AT4+ AP5+, AP4+

'Cuda
45cm AT6+ (5+)
30cm AP4+/AT4+/AA5+ (4+) FF
15cm AP4+/AA6+ (5+)

Best case AT - AT5+, AT4+, AP4+
Best case AP - AT5+, AP4+, AP4+

'Cuda has the edge in ground attack (and defensive flak, and the thunderbolt in dogfight.

200 for 2 for the above is somewhat to much.

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I don't mind those aircraft stats. you may have won me on this one.

Is the barracuda 25 points better per plane with those minimal differences though, Hena? I don't think so personally. And we can't have exactly the same stats on every plane to have exactly the same points. We have to have some divergence for fluff and fun's sake. Making them 50 points more for a formation for this minimal difference is overkill IMO. Nitpicking something this small will mean we take forever to get things done.

That seems quite reasonable!  

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