Attempting to apply common sense to Dreanoughts will give you fits, I don't recommend it.

I would think that all Dreads were Venerable since they're all Chapter heroes. Not only do you need to (almost) die gloriously in the service of the Chapter after centuries of exemplary service, but they need to have a Dread laying about to hook you into.

Unless you qualify as a Character in Epic, I don't think you're getting Dreaded.

Anyway, I don't think the Deathwing should be Fearless.

I know that's how they do it in 40k, but if Marneus Calgar isn't fearless, then the entire Deathwing isn't.

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I'm sure Marneus is the equivalent to a demon prince. Shame you can't have 4 of him to challenge Gavin with

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Taking all the above into account how about this?

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Dreadnoughts remain in the Company they belonged to. So there are Deathwing Dreadnoughts and generic (green painted) Dreadnoughts.

In my versionof the Dark Angels armx the Ravenwing Attack Bikes have Multi-Meltas and the Ravenwing Land Speeders have Heavy Bolters.

By the way the Ironwing needs the option of Land Raiders.

And yes there are different Land Raiders.
Green painted Land Raiders from the Armoury and bonewhite painted Land Raiders as dedicated transports for the Terminators of the Deathwing.

Caliban Predator? You REALLY like Plasma Cannons do you? The Predator never had options for Plasma Cannons.

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They did, I've got the models (Theres a chimera with hull mounted plasma cannon as well don't ya know.)

The plasma weapons serve too purposes. one the highlight the special/elite nature a bit more (being temperemental high tech etc), 2 they raise the AT capabilities making independant action easier to swallow and 3 they just make them play a bit differently.

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General Plumer, 191x

E40k era models i suppose? Those vehicles never had this option in Wh40k.

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They definatively did in rogue trader, I think they did in 2nd ed too. No idea from them on. Though of course they never had Mortis dreds until forgeworld made them up - whos to say how many more chapter specific stuff is out there?

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General Plumer, 191x

Not much.
- Land Raider Crusader was for the Black Teplar and is now available for all Chapters.
- Baal Predator and Furioso Dreadnought only available for Blood Angels.
- Land Speeder Tempest ist somekind restricted but generally available for all Chapters.
- Mortis Dreadnought is Dark Angels only but in the current Codex Dark Angels still can't have them but in the upcoming Space MArines Codex all Codex Chapters can have them (and it has two identical weapons on each side, not Twin Lascannon and Missile Launcher as in your DA armylist)
- Predator Destructor with Heavy Flamer sponsons was ony available for Salamanders but isn't an option in Codex Space Marines anymore.

Can't remember the old 2nd edition datasheets.

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Hena in Rogue Trader I could have them mounting conversion beamers if I so desired!

BL - it was a rhetorical question

You can 'invent' whatever Epic scale stuff you like, as for instance rarer stuff or AA and similar that simply isn't used in the 40k line up and charge 'skirmish' game. For instance a rail mounted artillary piece or combat train would be unlikely to appear in the average game of crossfire. And so on. Epic with the facilicity for easy convsions of very small tanks allows no end of oddities.

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

A noble effort at an army list and I like the fact that you´re using the different weapons to make them play differently.
The arguments (sorry discussions) about what weapons do or don´t go onto tanks and or dreads, bikes, speeders, marines, scouts etc . . . is a bit pointless as far as I can tell. The character of the Dark Angels (Which I assume is the point in a new army list) is their intractibility when faced with overwhelming, indeed suicidal odds, the Deathwing should be fearless as they have always, from their very first incarnation in SpaceHulk been noted as exceptionally brave and stubborn warriors - to the marneus Calgar point earlier in this thread, Calgar has the sense to see a losing situation and bugger off.
The Ravenwing include the entirety of the bike and landspeeder mounted marines within the Dark Angels, those deemed worthy of inclusion into the Ravenwing are then trained within that company and deployed where thei talents suit.
Although I praised the weapons use at the beginning of this reply, I´m now gonna be a hypocrite:
Dark Angels should have access to Codex stuff, nothing more than what a codex chapter has available is available to the Dark Angels, it´s just that they are obsessive, they have a Deathwing because they collected, stole and acquired every suit of tactical Dreadnought armour they could and didn´t let anyone take it away, ever.

Those are my thoughts, as to useful points about the armylist:
MkII Plasma Cannon . . . . . . . ? I think that explains that well enough, if the technology was there to make a PC better in any way, do you think any chapter would be throwing marines away with those explosive ones?
Dreadnoughts should be available to all, not just the Deathwing.
Deathwing Librarian? The Librarians of the Dark Angels are a seperate group of bookkeepers within the inner circle, they may choose to don terminator armour but if you choose to add Deathwing on the front surely it should also be a Deathwing Interogator Chaplain, a Deathwing Grand master, a Deathwing . . . . They are simply Librarians, not Deathwing (I know I made that into a big thing where what I actually meant was, why Deathwing? sorry)

I´ve had my rant now, gonna go play with the list and see what it´s like.



Sorry for the long reply, I just like Dark Angels.

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Its listed as MkII because the current Epic plasma cannon stats are useless - AP4+/AT4+ slow firing.

It really is impractical to track slow firing on a secondary weapon and completely unfitting for Epic. Why can't a plasma cannon recharge and fire over a 15 minute cycle? Plasma guns can. The blasma blastgun on a titan should be worried about, but nothing that isn't a main weapon system (as was deduced for the plasma russ variant).

The MkII is just a tag, for all we know the 'normal' one is the MkIVd Phaeton pattern. I'm building a list of all the weapons and vehicles slowly with these extra bits of info, they serve no in game purpose other than to add chrome (for instance its far more interesting to know the Salamanders use MkIIf Mars pattern Rhinos whereas the Iron Hands are fond of the MkIc Chronus pattern - it just appears in the title and makes no difference to the stats!).

There is nothing better about it - indeed in Epic given the move up, fire, next turn assault of typical marine play the slow fire option would be better (hitting on 5's instead of 6's), but just to damn fiddly for this game. You can assume they are being cooked as normal, but that doesn't show up in Epic.

And of course engaging at a closer range fits the deathwing/ravenwing style of play. And 30cm 5/5 is a good alternative play wise to 45cm 5/6.

Dreadnoughts should be available to all, not just the Deathwing.
Deathwing Librarian? The Librarians of the Dark Angels are a separate group of bookkeepers within the inner circle, they may choose to don terminator armour but if you choose to add Deathwing on the front surely it should also be a Deathwing Interogator Chaplain, a Deathwing Grand master, a Deathwing . . . . They are simply Librarians, not Deathwing (I know I made that into a big thing where what I actually meant was, why Deathwing? sorry).

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Oh back when these chaps were first talked about I got one game in with them. I found I actually shot at some Ork vehicles with the tacts, but otherwise played them pretty much like 'normal' marines in an air drop/terminator style. Though it was nice not to lose a chaplain to combat resolution kills!

I do wonder how much fearless is worth to marines though.

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I don't think Plasma weapons heat up all that much anyway.

A single 40k game is half the length of a turn in Epic, and since its a close firefight the weapons are performing at their limits since the alternative I likely death.

In Epic they are firing at a much less frenetic pace from much greater range.

And the best reason being that 4/4 Slow-firing is both fiddly and actually better than 5/5 normal since you won't be firing every turn anyway.

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow