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Latest OGBM?
rpr
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:39 pm 
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Is what version and where?

(if it still has 50 point big mek isn't that a bit cheap, even if oddboy stays at 50 points... you get a free leader and CCMW too! So I would say it should be 75 if oddboy is 50 which I support)

Edit: and the version I have (OGBM2.0) has Mega Lobba with range 75cm in Kustom list but 60cm in Kustom gargant, is this supposed to be so?
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nealhunt
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:28 pm 
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I haven't updated it in almost a year.  The other big projects have just been more important.  There was a discussion a couple months ago in this thread.  I would especially like to get opinions on the weapon issues I outlined in this post.

I agree with Meks being 75 points.  Consider it done.

I've pretty well decided on the following:

* Mega Lobbas should be 60cm.  I missed the change in the Kustom list.

* MegaKannon can only replace Soopagunz or SupaZzap Gunz (so no MegaKannon Krawlas)

* Grot Attack! only works if the gargant ENDS the turn within 15cm of the objective.

* Krawla:  475 points, FF4+

* Kustom Gargant:  Remove Big Gunz (possibly drop points to 400 - testing needed)

===

I have a 2.1 doc as a work-in-progress with all those changes in it, but I haven't sent it to the vault due to limited feedback.

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rpr
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:51 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Jan. 02 2008,19:28)
QUOTE
I have a 2.1 doc as a work-in-progress with all those changes in it, but I haven't sent it to the vault due to limited feedback.

All these points (above and old topics) seem pretty fine.
Some comments on weapons:
Lifta Droppa seems to suck - just +CCEA - isn't it a far better idea to take +1 DC for mekboy?
Mega Choppa seems very weak.
Soopa Lifta Droppa: modelling problem, drop it, just one special big lifta droppa at most. (I use lifta droppas as Supa-zzapps ...)

A bit linked rules question, just to make sure that this is what is wanted: so if I tellyporta a huge lootband, I have to roll 24 times for scatter?

And mekboy PFs can be put to gun fortress for example?
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rpr
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:42 pm 
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More on OGBM:
Shouldn't 'snappa mob' cost more like 125/225/325 than 150/250/325? There is, after all, only 120 points worth of units on it so 150 sounds quite expensive... and progression is a bit weird.

Supa Stompa maybe 300 like in other list?
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nealhunt
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:50 pm 
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Snappa:  Maybe.  I think the fear is that 150-point formations dilute one of the drawbacks of the army - low activation count.  As compensation, the 150/250/350 point progression is a very deep discount - the deepest for any Ork formation.

I don't recall any batreps that really took this to task, so I don't think it's been well-tested.  For it to show up as appreciably different, though, you'd have to have a really extreme list.  It would take 4 Snappa mobz to make just 100 point difference in the list, and probably more like 6-8 mobz before you could really attribute any weird results to incorrect points.

Incidentally, I've theorized a Snappa Mob air assault - Landa, 6 Snappas, 2 Dreads.  It would have considerably more offensive power than any Thawk load and would come in cheaper than most as well (450 for the Landa/Snappa v. 525-600 for the SM version).  The troops would have weaker armor and no TSKNF, but should still make for a cheap and damaging assault.  That's another combo I'd like to see tried extensively.  Something like Great Gargant, Kustom Gargant, 4 Landas w/ Snappas would be right at 3000 points and... interesting.


Supastompa:  Maybe.  It was discounted like the Gargants (or, more accurately, it was left at the "core" army price when the Gargants were discounted because everyone had recognized the core army cost was off).  I left the discount out of sheer inertia.  I'm not sure about whether or not the cost should be raised, but I bet 275-300 would probably be okay.


In short, I could be pretty easily convinced on either one.  Batreps that attempted exploits of either one would be especially convincing.

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rpr
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:48 am 
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(nealhunt @ Jan. 03 2008,00:50)
QUOTE
Snappa:  Maybe.  I think the fear is that 150-point formations dilute one of the drawbacks of the army - low activation count.  As compensation, the 150/250/350 point progression is a very deep discount - the deepest for any Ork formation.

I don't recall any batreps that really took this to task, so I don't think it's been well-tested.  For it to show up as appreciably different, though, you'd have to have a really extreme list.  It would take 4 Snappa mobz to make just 100 point difference in the list, and probably more like 6-8 mobz before you could really attribute any weird results to incorrect points.

Incidentally, I've theorized a Snappa Mob air assault - Landa, 6 Snappas, 2 Dreads.  It would have considerably more offensive power than any Thawk load and would come in cheaper than most as well (450 for the Landa/Snappa v. 525-600 for the SM version).  The troops would have weaker armor and no TSKNF, but should still make for a cheap and damaging assault.  That's another combo I'd like to see tried extensively.  Something like Great Gargant, Kustom Gargant, 4 Landas w/ Snappas would be right at 3000 points and... interesting.

Well, it would be more like 3 landas with snappas as there is this limit of 3 formations per gargant... most probably would end up as Ork losing as so little land activations to claim objectives.

Well I actually played with this idea, but which one is acually better Landa load: 6 killa kan and 2 dreadnaught or loota band with 2 grotz, 6 boyz and 4 killa kans.. same cost, hits (average in melee) 3+3MW vs. 4.67+1.33MW. If +10 points can be spared, loota band can have nob instead of one killa kan, to 5.67+1M

So, which one is better, some MW hits instead of regular and grotz eating hits... depends of the target I guess.

But that is so true that 25 point difference cannot be notified so it is more like about the cost and feeling. So far I have not seen OGBM list with snappa mobs... and for 125, you could also take 5 big guns when we start to talk about activations :]
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rpr
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:37 am 
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(rpr @ Jan. 02 2008,19:51)
QUOTE
Some comments on weapons:
Lifta Droppa seems to suck - just +CCEA - isn't it a far better idea to take +1 DC for mekboy?
Mega Choppa seems very weak.
Soopa Lifta Droppa: modelling problem, drop it, just one special big lifta droppa at most. (I use lifta droppas as Supa-zzapps ...)

Oh, bad on me, I did not notice that some of these were directly from default gargants.. the gargant weapon list should definately have like
"powered-up weapons" and "default weapons". The first one would include all new ones and then twin-soopagun and lifta-droppa (which seems to have +TKd3 CCEA, so this way it is ok) while the second one would include soopagun, supa-zzap and mega-choppa.

Then mekboy either upgrades big gun to 'default weapon' (maybe excluding mega-choppa) or 'default weapon' to 'powered-up weapon'.
Actually default weapons do not need to be listed there.. so the list could only have "kustom weapons", i.e. all the new ones and then 'lifta droppa' and 'twin soopa-gun' (like in great gargant)
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nealhunt
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:30 pm 
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The WE and Landa "conga line" is pretty nasty in play.  Something similar can be done with the core list - Supastompa Mobz and Landas.  It is better at grabbing objectives than it appears.  The later turns often consist of Landa-only air assaults with lots of FF support and the remains of the boyz mobs doubling to take objectives.

Good point on the 125 point Gunzmobz.

The "default" and "powered up" weapons are in the same list because someone might want to switch a basic gargant weapon for another basic gargant weapon.  I don't see it being a common choice but someone might want a Gargant with 2 Zzaps/1 Soopa instead of 2 Soopa/1 Zzap.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:55 pm 
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Bump.  I'm requesting feedback for the July Orka-a-thon.  Anything is appreciated.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:29 pm 
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Last chance to comment before I post an updated list.  Changes from the v2.1 in the wikiwikiwar:

1) Grot Targeters go to AA5+.  It's a 50 point upgrade and I've never seem them taken a single time in any army list.  I don't think taking them from 6+ to 5+ is going to blow anything up.

2)  Ripper Fist - auxiliary weapon is 2x AP5+/AT5+

3)  Snapper - FF attacks reduced to +2

4)  Added a 1/3 air/spacecraft restriction.  I've never seen a list abuse this, but I thought it was better to be safe.

5)  Various cosmetic/editorial bits.




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Dave
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:21 pm 
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The Big Boss has Supreme Commander and Leader. Under the 08 Errata/FAQ doesn't that mean that extra Leader does nothing?

The special rules mention the zapp fortress yet it isn't present anywhere else in the pdf.

The two references to Grotnoughts is the army list are "+50pts", where as every other upgrade would have listed them as "+50 points".

Finally, Killa Kans were only available up until recently. For those of us who bought packs of dreads which contained no kans it would be nice to field all dread formations. Making the core units for the Snappa Mob "4 Dreadnoughts" would help with this.

Points wise this makes sense as well because dreads are 35 points each where the kans are 25 each. You get 4 Gunwagonz (35 each) for 150, I would think you should get 4 dreads for the 150. If it's kept as is I think you could probably go down to 125.




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nealhunt
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:08 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ 11 Aug. 2008, 17:21 )

The Big Boss has Supreme Commander and Leader. Under the 08 Errata/FAQ doesn't that mean that extra Leader does nothing?

Yep, and it's deleted, along with the other various editorial changes.

I would think you should get 4 dreads for the 150. If it's kept as is I think you could probably go down to 125.


Changed to 125/225/325, as discussed above.  I know it sucks if you already have 20+ dreadnoughts and only a few Killa Kanz, but I like having the Kanz in there for flavor.  They're the grots of the walkers, like the Grotnoughts are the grots of the Gargants.

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:14 am 
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I made Killakans out of plastic Dreads, shortened legs and took out other hand and other gun. I too had only 2 "real killakans".

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Latest OGBM?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:29 pm 
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Have you had any thoughts on dropping the power level/Dc of the Mega-Gargant to match the version of the Imperator we've got in the AMTL army list (Ie: A level that *might* be practical to try incorporating into non-scenario games)?




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