Guard is the next test game and I am hoping that Marines will follow after that.

Then probably Orks.

I can see that 250 is probably a better price for them but I've also had them shot out of the air in two games now so who knows :-)

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If youwould folloe the example lead by the rulebook Thunderhwak stats the Hellblade would have:

Speed: Fighter
Armour: -
Weapons: Reaper 15cm AP5+/AA4+ with 360° fire arc

This would fit the fluff (low armour but exepctional manouverability) of the Hellblade and the undergunned stats the Thunderbolt shows us.

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Okay:

My main reason for not liking the 2x30cm shots for the hellblade is that it introduces another 30cm interceptor, which doesn't need to enter flack range for bombers. Of the rulebook bombers we have the fighta-bomma and landa (15cm defensive flack), the thunderhawk and landing craft (15cm defensive flack apart from the front arc), the marauder (15cm defensive flack). Only Eldar bombers don't have 360-degree defenses. Of the rulebook interceptors, bommas need to enter defensive flak range and thunderbolts are less effective outside 15cm range.

30cm range means that hellblade interceptors will be able to pull the same trick as Eldar nightwings - fire at full effect while staying outside of defensive flak range. Is this what we want? This is the big question in my mind, the actual firepower is less important, it doesn't really matter that much in the big scheme.

A no-save interceptor under the new air-combat rules (i.e. +1 to AA) is going to suffer heavy casualties on approach if they only have 15cm range. Conversely, with 30cm range, the interceptor can probably intercept just about any enemy without risk of air flack by moving into their side arc and staying more than 15cm.

15cm vs 30cm has a massive effect on the craft's role as an interceptor and its point cost to boot. What role should it have - eldar-like killer, dancing around outside enemy flak, or a much more numerous interceptor hunting in packs and getting shot down by those brave marauder crews with the dashing haircuts, only dragging them down by sheer weight of numbers?

Aside from the aircraft, comments on the stalker, desecrator, new defiler/obliterators? What do you think of the desecrator's weapon loadout? I took the sonic weapon from the Slaanesh version I made just because I like the name and the Disrupt makes it a uniquely different AA from any other (particularly differentiating it from the Stalker). Do you think the desecrator is worth the same number of points as the defiler? Noone any issues with the Obliterators having MW? Will the defiler's new stats make it more attractive?

I noted Chris' comment about the D3 attacks on the stalker adding another roll. 4xAA6+ might work, but I think the D3 gives more of an impression of more powerful rockets and a dodgy targetting system rather than a hail of inferior rockets. Might be worth testing, see if that extra D3 really is a pain or not.

Or total causalities if you play against my Chaos army :-)

I noted Chris' comment about the D3 attacks on the stalker adding another roll. 4xAA6+ might work, but I think the D3 gives more of an impression of more powerful rockets and a dodgy targetting system rather than a hail of inferior rockets. Might be worth testing, see if that extra D3 really is a pain or not.

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

The Differnece between 6+ and zero is not that much.....

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Attrition is the proof of absence of Strategy

It should be noted that it could be given a save, if that became an issue. I don't think there's any difference between helltalon and hellblade armour in 40K rules (don't know about AI), plus improved armour for the hellblade could represent agility rather than armour (like the Eldar nightwing). A 6+ or even 5+ save for the hellblade would not be impossible and would make it more viable for intercepts.

The armour and the AA power of the guns are all secondary issues and can be tweaked as necessary. The question remains: do we want them to have to move within flack range or not. If we do, it becomes a cheap chaff aircraft like the bomma. If we don't, we have a codex creep situation whereby all aircraft flack weapons are useless against the hellblade.

Both 15cm and 30cm weapons like the thunderbolt would be ideal, but with an armament of 4 autocannon I see no way to do that without abstraction, in which case we might as well stick with the original aircraft.

Have to say that if you get hit 6 times by 15cm flak over the course of the game you lose 6 fighters, compared to the other races losing 5 (or Eldar 3). Defensive armour is less of an issue for fighters as they have the initiative and when attacked themselves can always jink for a 4+ save.

The +1 is used by attackers not defenders so its always got a 4+ save when jumped in such a way and with a wider fire arc would have the chance to create a better defensive zone of fire.

Whether its 30cm, 2 5+ or not really comes down to its background. Apparently its superior to Imperial stuff so that fits. Has a side effect of preventing a Choas player getting a warlord/fighter combo, which is a shame but not too big of an issue.

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In Aeronautica Imperialis the Hellblade is the only aircraft with only one hit point. All other aircrafts have at least two hitpoints.

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It´s simply Math. 1/6 more survivability. Given them the same load like T-bolts, they should be cheaper for abour 1/6. For the first step I would go this. I disbelieve that you will see the big difference at the playtestings. I think it´s more an issue that you do not get a roll at all. No matter how the chance is to save someting, it´s more important to get the roll At least my observance.

my 0.02 cent

Soren

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Attrition is the proof of absence of Strategy

Just a thought:-

Has anyone suggested giving the Helltalon "First Strike" against the target A/c (not ground AA) to reflect its speed and agility - and if the target survives then the defensive AA rips the fighter to shreds? Then you could reduce the ranges to 15cms etc as Lord =I= suggests - which would be my strong preference as well.

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Ginger, that´s pretty ingenious!

I would love to give that idea a try...


(assuming you are referring to the Hell Blade, that is)  

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Its an interesting idea.

We'd have to add these to the weapon notes and then split the weapon so it had two entries, one for ground attacks and a second for AA with the First Strike.

Sounds interesting but it still has one basic problem, that being that it again forces the aircraft into the same cookie cutter that the others are in.

It solves a problem (in an interesting way) that I don't know needs to be solved.

Certainly a good idea to keep handy if we need to try a different approach to the aircraft.

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.