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Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
Erik M
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:01 pm 
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Yes, I've reconned he is, no fret. ;) I'm just not sure about 'em. Exodus seem to sword and shield close combat for sci-fi, or are my eyes deciving me?
Apart from that the khazari looks just great!

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:40 am 
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That is a squad portable shield generator, Erik ... it says so in the description. 8v) Just checked my Khazari. There is one per stand. :D

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:23 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ 13 Jul. 2008, 08:42 )

Hey guys,

Would you mind creating a pinned thread with links to the latest lists in them? I would find it helpful and I'm sure others would too.

Agreed that would be helpful. Epilgrim emailed me a copy of the Demiurg list, but I can't find Thurgrimm's.

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jaldon454
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:08 am 
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I have placed a stripped down version of Thurgrimm's list on the forum, I'd pin it if I could but I cannot right now.

Jaldon :p

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epilgrim
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:34 am 
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posted the Demiurg 3.0 as well, we have requested that they be pinned.

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jaldon454
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:47 am 
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Thanks for pinning them..................

Been testing the following

(1) Squats do not suffer a -1 in the rally phase for enemy within 30cm

(2) Squats roll 2D6 in the Assault roll off but re-roll any '1' that come up.

Initial prospects look promising as replacements for the 3D6/2D6 rules of Stubborn.

Both have a lesser overall effect then the older version, admittedly these are just preliminary.

Jaldon :p

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epilgrim
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:53 am 
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We both posted the lists for everyone in a text version for use. Any comments or playtesting experiences about either list is welcome!

The anvil is in place and the forge is hot, it's time to start hammering things out.

If you have squat models and want to play them in EA, please pile in and comment.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:26 pm 
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(A) Thurgrimm's is the early Squats before the Tyranid eradication event, and the Demiurg are the more modern present version of the Squats post eradication event.

(B) That they both presently exist in the present universe, but the Demiurg are a waundering type of Squat, less settled (like the Eldar Biel Tann are more warlike then 'normal' Eldar), while Thurgrimm's represents the more settled live at home type of Squat.


I was discussing this with ePilgrim off line (heresy!! :tongue: ) and I think there was a misunderstanding on (B).  Option (A) brings the Tyranids into the equation, specifically turning the Homeworlds in a Happy Meal.  Option (B) brings up the Thurgrimm's Homeworld as an existing homeworld but makes no mention of the Tyranids.  I (and I am guessing others) misunderstood (B) to be removing the eating of the Homeworlds concept from any storyline.  ePilgrim told me this is not the case so I'll throw these options out.

Which option do you like better?
(A) Thurgrimm's is the early Squats before the Tyranid eradication event, and the Demiurg are the more modern present version of the Squats post eradication event.

(B) That they both presently exist in the present universe, but the Demiurg are a waundering type of Squat, less settled (like the Eldar Biel Tann are more warlike then 'normal' Eldar), while Thurgrimm's represents the more settled live at home type of Squat.  The Tyranid invasion never occurred.

© Thurgrimm and Demiurg both exist in the present universe.  Thurgrimm is the only remaining Stronghold left of the 'Squat' culture, and managed to survive the Tyranid invasion by virtue of large distant colonies and opportunities to evacuate (ex. they were the last Stronghold to be attacked so had more time to dispatch civilians and equipment in the face of invasion).  Demiurg are a mish mosh of Stronghold leftovers, small colonies, and space faring fleets that banded together after the Homeworlds' destruction.  They stand in contrast to their more traditional Thurgrimm brothers and are a people without a home.  

If I misunderstood Jaldon's (B) then it is possible others did as well.  I obviously like option (A) but © also has some fun aspects.  It allows for a rich fictional background and story that more easily contrasts the Squats as they were to the Squats as they are without relegating Thurgrimm's list to the past (broadly akin to Craftworld Eldar vs Exodites).  It still keeps with the Tyranid invasion idea and can be the source for some fun scenarios.  It makes the population of Squats/Demiurg a more believable number.  Lastly, it still allows for some difference in unit stats between the lists if need be.

Thoughts?

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:01 pm 
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Believe it or not, I like C) the best, because it keeps Thurgrimm's in the present and keeps all the possibilities background-wise for a Tyranid invasion.

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epilgrim
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:33 pm 
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DS,

That is the very definition of "Shock and Awe"

Wow

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:01 pm 
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Quote: (epilgrim @ 16 Jul. 2008, 15:33 )

DS,

That is the very definition of "Shock and Awe"

Wow

Yeah, I knew that would surprise people.  :vD  I don't see any point in fighting the masses on this issue. I'm in favor of pretty much whatever will let me keep playing Squats as Squats and not Demiurg (no offense).

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epilgrim
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:50 pm 
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Grudging respect works for me :)

As this effort gets shored up I will gladly square off against your Stronghold. My Consortium mercs are always at the ready.

I just want them played!

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jaldon454
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:51 pm 
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I was discussing this with ePilgrim off line (heresy!!


:sigh:  And I thought we had a better relationship then that.

Option (B) brings up the Thurgrimm's Homeworld as an existing homeworld but makes no mention of the Tyranids.  I (and I am guessing others) misunderstood (B) to be removing the eating of the Homeworlds concept from any storyline.  ePilgrim told me this is not the case so I'll throw these options out.

Correct (B) DOES NOT (Capitals to be clear not yelling) remove the Tyranids from the story line.

Believe it or not, I like C) the best, because it keeps Thurgrimm's in the present and keeps all the possibilities background-wise for a Tyranid invasion.

Nothing like leaving me speechless DS  :shutup:

No matter what direction we finally go in Thurgrimm's will not be relegated to the ash heap of the 40K universe. Think about it.....

Tyranids > Mindless eating machines.

Eldar > A dying race who are still holding on to their old glory.

Orks > Little better then the Tyranids when it comes to mindless.

Chaos > Wanna be's with little control and even less fore thought.

Imperials > Face it they worship machines how backwards is that.

Tau > They THINK they know about war and trade, farmer Johns at best.

Squat/Demiurg > Know what machines really are, Know trade and economics, know how to get rich, know how to really use technology, heck they are the only ones that really know what is going on.

We gotta have em, whether the rest of the Universe wants them or not. Besides who better to know how to survive the Tyranids then Squats and Demiurg.

Still playtesting right now I am siding with no -1 for enemy within 30cms and re-roll natural '1's in the assault resolution to replace the 2D6/3D6 stubborn. Give it a try.

Jaldon :p

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:52 am 
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Good quick tour/Cliff Notes of the Epic/40K Uni, J454 !  So according to that the "Stuntys" are the Best ! :D

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Curis
 Post subject: Squat/Demiurg Development Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:35 pm 
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"Thurgrimm's is the early Squats before the Tyranid eradication event..."

Yes!  This makes the most sense as all the extant Squat background and models were pre-Tyranid invasion.  And as I see the list as a throwback to Epic's earlier days, it should be set in the past.

Remember, we're talking about "the past" here.  But how far in the past?  Probably 2 years.  It's never been mentioned explicitly, but the most likely Hive Fleet that ate the Home Worlds was Leviathan (it's the closest, unless it was one of the Minor Hive Fleets mentioned in the 3rd edition Nid Codex).   Leviathan was 997.M41, and the current 40K year is 999.M41.  What's the problem with setting it in "the past".

I think a post-invasion list is something to be done way off in the future once the standard list is stable and found wide acceptance.  It would be based on the Thurgrim's, but take on a more survivor vibe, with less War Engines and more grizzled hardened infantry.

I don't care how the Demiurg are justified.

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