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[Old!] Tyranids v9.0

 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:03 pm 
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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:37 pm 
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Another "simple" question regarding the Vituperator transport capabilities. It can apparently carry both Tyranid warriors and Hive Tyrants. However, at the start os the game players are required to build swarms based on the synapse groups.

So, for the purposes of spawning, is the Vituperator and the stuff it is carrying a single swarm - or do the swarms being carried spawn inside it?

Also as a completely tangential thought; brood creatures effectively replace BMs, so could a swarm be allowed to spawn if it marshalls successfully?

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:29 pm 
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(Ginger @ Jun. 21 2008,16:37)
QUOTE
Another "simple" question regarding the Vituperator transport capabilities. It can apparently carry both Tyranid warriors and Hive Tyrants. However, at the start os the game players are required to build swarms based on the synapse groups.

A Vituperator follows the same rules as other transport war engines; so, it can be it's own swarm, carrying *another* swarm led by a Hive Tyrant or Tyranid Warriors.   Once they're no longer being transported, they'd act independently.

Technically, a transported swarm *could* spawn, but since there'd be no Synapse creatures on the board to place the Brood creatures near, nothing would happen, as they couldn't be placed within 5cm of them.

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:23 am 
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So, for the purposes of spawning, is the Vituperator and the stuff it is carrying a single swarm - or do the swarms being carried spawn inside it?


No, as per the WE transport rules they are separate formations. However if the units being carried contain no Synapse creatures then they fall under the control of the Vituperator and form a single swarm.

Technically, a transported swarm *could* spawn, but since there'd be no Synapse creatures on the board to place the Brood creatures near, nothing would happen, as they couldn't be placed within 5cm of them.

I think that it might be good thing thing to put it in writing that transported synapse groups cannot spawn.

Agreed.

Jaldon :p

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:56 am 
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Nice work to all involved guys - particularly Chroma who had to put up with me asking who won ;). Really well done.


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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:39 am 
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Well I had a 3K game today using the following and absolutelly brutalised my mates thousand sons:
Synapse
1x Dominatrix
1x Vituperator
1x Hive Tyrant
1x Tyranid Warriors
Independent
2x Heirophants
Common
3x Termagant Broods
4x Hormagaunt Broods
2x Ravener Broods
Uncommon
2x Heirodules
1x Malefactors
2x Haruspexs

Didn't encounter any problems, the new spawning system is stupidly simple now, so a big thumbs up there. The extra damage capacity on the biotitans vs regneration is again smoother as less dice rolling needed. Disposable on all brood creatures is awesomely nasty and I believe reflects the hive mind well.

We only hit one snag though (I don't know if this has been addressed as I can't seem to find anything on it) what happens when a synapse swarm (ie synapse group+ brood group) loses all its synapse creatures? Does the formation stick around and act normally, can't do anything until once again in synapse with something else? Basically what happens?

The way we played it, is we counted the remaining brood creatues as being 'out of formation' with the (now) non-existant synapse group and so it died. Is this the right way?

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:01 am 
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You have only 6 activations. How did you control the objectives?

By completelly destroying his army bar 3 silver towers and 5 stands of rubric marines :alien:  I won 4-0 objective wise
Cheers for clearing that up Hena, its similar to what I was trying to explain but in the end we played it safe to save needless "discussion"

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:14 pm 
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The way I read it, swarms without synapse creatures can be destroyed at 3 different points:

1) In the end phase, creatures which cannot be "picked up" by another synapse creature go to ground.  The end-phase rule is quoted above.

The rule for other situations is:
During the Action Phase, a synapse swarm is treated like a
normal formation. However, all Brood creatures must stay within
control range of Synapse creatures of the swarm. If a swarm finds
itself "out of formation" (either normal coherency, see EA1.7.4, or
control range), the portion with the least Synapse creatures is
removed. The only exception to staying in control range is during
assaults: only normal coherency must be adhered to, though once
the assault is over both normal coherency and control range must
be maintained.

====
Until the colors get worked out...
During the Action Phase, a synapse swarm is treated like a
normal formation. However, all Brood creatures must stay within
control range of Synapse creatures of the swarm. If a swarm finds
itself "out of formation" (either normal coherency, see EA1.7.4, or
control range), the portion with the least Synapse creatures is
removed. The only exception to staying in control range is during
assaults: only normal coherency must be adhered to, though once
the assault is over both normal coherency and control range must
be maintained.

====

If you move without a synapse, you're out of control range immediately and are destroyed per 1.7.4.  If you use an Engage action as a last action you don't have to maintain control range; you're okay until the end of the turn when control range has to be re-established.  So...

2) At the end of a non-assault move, a swarm without synapse creatures is destroyed.

3) At the end of an assault action, a swarm without synapse creatures is destroyed.


Is that not the intent?




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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:34 pm 
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Unless things have changed in 9.0, 2) isn't correct (I can see how it can be interpreted the way it was by you however, the language should be clarified).

If a synapse swarms looses its synapse creatures before it acts it still gets to perform an action that turn if it isn't broken.  The brood creatures only go to ground in the end phase if they are out of synapse range.




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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:48 pm 
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Neal

Talking with Hena over the weekend, you seem to have described the intent. Basically this does allow a swarm that has lost it's synapse through enemy fire, to make a last assault before it dies (at the end of the assault). However, it dies to "lack of control" in the action phase.

What is less clear is if this works precisely the same as coherency - so can the leaderless formation sustain before it dies or not?

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:56 pm 
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I will try the new list soon, and I welcome most of the gameplay changes. I am a great fan of simplification. These are merely some thoughts and questions from just reading the list, not actually playing it, and if I am wrong, you are most welcome to tell me so, otherwise I will have to find out for myself.

Hive Tyrants contribute +3 to spawning: Synapse (+3). So, if I have 2 tyrants in a swarm, according to the rules this give me a +6 modifier? If so, is not this quite much (as in more than a Dominatrix)? Does this not make Tyrants an infinitely better choice than Tyranid Warriors?

I have played the 8.4 M1.2 variant before, and I preferred some of the unit data in that variant, especially the Trygon. I think it is a bit inconsistent to give Carnifexes, Hive Tyrants and even Lictors Macro-weapons and not Trygons. My fexes' claws are tooth-pickers in comparison. This comment is purely aesthetic, but I still find it rather disturbing.

On a larger note, I have some questions regarding the nature of the Tyranid list. If I understand the history of it correctly, and also the underlying reason for a Phase III list, there has been an ongoing debate as how to make Tyranids more strategic in their gameplay. There is the option of winged tyrants, and I am just curious as to why the option is not there for tyranid warriors as well? Another option would be Trygon burrowers (deep strike). Trygons would then perhaps also belong to synapse creatures, as they do in 40K. Has Trygon deep-strikes been rejected, or tested?

Anyway, keep up the good work, and I am looking forward to trying the ONE Tyranid list for a change :)

/Fredmans

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:06 pm 
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Quote: (fredmans @ 30 Jun. 2008, 15:56 )

Hive Tyrants contribute +3 to spawning: Synapse (+3). So, if I have 2 tyrants in a swarm, according to the rules this give me a +6 modifier? If so, is not this quite much (as in more than a Dominatrix)? Does this not make Tyrants an infinitely better choice than Tyranid Warriors?

Hive Tyrants should have a Synapse (+1) rating, the (+3) is a typo.

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