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[Old!] Tyranids v9.0
Chroma
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:02 am 
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(Ginger @ Jun. 21 2008,01:08)
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However, compared with the amount of spawning the Synapse creatures produce, this seems rather limited, especially in larger games. Perhaps a compromise might be to use a D3 per "X" Synapse points.


Hmmm... ?you do realize that *each* Synapse Swarm gets the result of that 2d3 roll to add to their "spawn points", it's not spread amongst them. ?If you roll a "4", each swarm gets four points, two points if within 30cm of the enemy.

Also, is there a limit to the number of creatures that can be spawned back onto a formation? (It seems reasonable that the Synapse value of the formation should provide some form of limit).

No limit except what you've purchased for the army. ?You can have one massive swarm if you like.

2) ?Expendable
I am unsure how this works now. It seems to suggest that swarms of Independant creatures are vulnerable to BMs, while other swarms only get BMs if the Synapse creature is hit. So a swarm made up of a Synapse creature and lots of brood creatures is virtually unbreakable. Is that correct??
Swarms still get the Blast marker for coming under fire, but take no Blast markers for losses of Brood creatures from shooting. ?The only "easy" way to break a Synapse swarm is to beat it in an assault.  And, yes, the Independent swarms can be shot up and broken like a normal formation.

3) Bio Titans
Have we lost "regeneration" on the Bio titans? It seems a pity. One thought I am sure may have been discussed elsewhere is that spawning points could be used to regenerate 1DC per War Engine.
Regeneration is gone for now, but almost all Bio-war engines have gotten an increase in DC.

4) Swarm organisation
So I have bought a pile of Synapse creatures. Am I required to create swarms according to the Synapse group titles, or can I create any number of swarms up to the limit of the synapse creatures available?
Each Synapse Group forms the "core" of a swarm that you then assign Brood creatures to; you don't mix-and-match Synapse Groups.

Any more questions? ?Thanks for the interest!




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jaldon454
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:11 am 
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First I want to thank Chroma, Hena, Ott, and Neal for knocking me around and keeping me straight during the process :O

Second I wish to thank the above for carrying the ball and coming up with most of the changes applied to the list.

Third If anyone finds anything they do not like in the list I will take full responsibility, as in the end, all of the changes were approved by me

Last I want to thank Chroma, Hena and Ott for doing such an excellent job caring for the list (Like true Hive Mothers) while I was away. Sadly they are going to have to do it again as my job is taking me away again in about two weeks, and I do not know if I will have net access.

OK....................................

While I was away I had come to the conclusion (I still play when I am away, just with a much smaller group of co-workers, heh I am the boss they gotta play or no raises :devil: ) that there were just too many special rules to deal with to have any hope of balancing the list.

Upon my return to the real world I found that the crew had come to the same conclusion and were already working in that direction (Yes great minds do think alike). My usual procedure is to take things way off in one direction and then work back toward the center, so I did.

Now this list is to far off from the original that it is built from to say this is the best of the best, far from it. But it is a dang sight cleaner and easier to understand then any Nid list thus far produced, by us.

The intention is to create a relentless 'feel' within the framework of the original EA rules so that many of the special rules could be done away with. Expendable (Old Disposable) creates this as now uncommon and common brood creatures create no BMs making it near impossible to halt these swarms with shooting alone. On the reverse side the Nid players are now going to have to be more careful using their Independent Formations as they are vulnerable to enemy fire breaking them.

There is nothing wrong with this as these Independent formations shouldn't be out galavanting all over the battle area anyways. Instead they should be 'sneaking' around the battlefield, as fit their fluff, and this rule omission creates that without having to write any rules.

Some are probably going to cry that Bio-Titan regeneration  is gone. In point of fact the new higher DC they have equates well into what they would get back during a four turn battle and increases their overall combat ability. This gives us fewer dice rolls, and creates more effective WEs both of which are good things.

Spawning only a single roll that effects all the swarms :confuse:  Not only does this make the entire process at the end of the turn easier to carry out, but IMHO reflects the 'Bigger Picture Hive Mind's' influence, or lack of same, over the battle area. Yes this could result in a big boost turn and in big let down turns, but considering that most swarms are going to find themselves within 30cms of somebody most of the time it works out to a 1D3 added to each swarm.

Ok, now go fly, and playtest, and let us know what you think. I will try to get as much time in the next two weeks as I can to answer any questions posted from this point forward. Be assured that Hena, Chroma and Ott can also answer officially for the list.

Once again my humble Thanks to Chroma, Hena, Ott and Neal

Jaldon :p

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Ginger
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:34 am 
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Thanks for the explanation Hena, but what you wrote in the posts is not what I understood from the rules. I thought you only got between 1 and 6 points to spread across the entire army - hence the post.

Ok, so lets go through the process I think I understood from your posts

1) Check if there are any swarms near the enemy. Throw 1D3 if enemy is nearby, or 2D3 if it is distant. lets assume I get 2 (cos the enemy is nearby)

2) Count the number of groups and multiply by the spawn points. In my case (ignoring the invalid composition for the moment), I have 5 groups, so I get 10 points

3) Add the number of Synapse points, less 3 points per broken formation. I have 19, and assuming none are broken, that gives me 29 spawing points

4) Check what is available, "Spawn" back dead broods and return them to any swarm.

So, using my army composition, I can expect to generate anything between 24 and 49 points - which will return just about every brood creature in my army (assuming my opponent has the bad luck to miss all the Synapse creatures - which I agree is unlikely)

Have I got it right now??

As for the actual army composition, I will post a revised list shortly

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Mephiston
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:53 am 
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My reading of the spawing is as follows.

1. Roll 2d3

2. Pick a synapse group.

3. Apply full score to all swarm if outside 30cms of the enemy, Half score if withing 30cms of the enemy

4. For each swarm add there synapse bonus with -3 if broken

5. Spawn units from reserve

6. Repeat steps 2-5 until all swarms have spawned.
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Chroma
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:36 pm 
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(Mephiston @ Jun. 21 2008,10:53)
QUOTE
My reading of the spawing is as follows.

Yes, Mephiston has it correct.

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Ginger
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:56 pm 
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OK, gotcha - could we revise the wording to say this, rather than refering to "the army" and swarmS plural.

Also, could we be clear at which point the broods are resurrected and returned. Following the process outlined by Mephiston has an implication that the process of spawning is applied on a swarm-by-swarm basis rather than going through the calculation to determine the number of points available in total and then spawning and returning the broods.

I might add that if I have not misunderstood again :p it seems potentially possible to advance a swarm to assault range, and then spawn a lot of stuff on it to be sure of the results - which has a touch of gaminess about it - or am I wrong again?? :)




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Chroma
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:02 pm 
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(Ginger @ Jun. 21 2008,12:56)
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I might add that if I have not misunderstood again :p it seems potentially possible to advance a swarm to assault range, and then spawn a lot of stuff on it to be sure of the results - which has a touch of gaminess about it - or am I wrong again?? :)

The "spawn points" are not used as a "pool", each swarm gets its own total that it can use, and no more; there's no "sharing" of spawn points to have one swarm "super spawn". ?Spawning happens in the End Phase, so I'm not sure what you're referring to with this: "Also, could we be clear at which point the broods are resurrected and returned."

Does that make sense? ?I'll have to ensure that it's clearer in the next version.




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Ginger
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:27 pm 
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Thanks Chroma - the "super-spawn" came from Hena's initial reply. Doing this on a Swarm-by-swarm basis is both clearer and simpler. Perhaps the words could be revised accordingly :- Spawning allows the Tyranid player to return Brood creature units to play that have been killed, removed from play, or held in reserve. At the start of the End Phase, for each swarm
- Determine the number of base ?spawn points? available to it:- roll 2D3 (or 1D3 if it is within 30cm of an enemy formation).
- Add all its Synapse creatures' Synapse (+x) values to this number,
- If the swarm is broken, modify this total by -3
- Use the total "spawn" points to return a number of brood creatures to the swarm

Brood creatures have "Brood (x)" in their notes where "x" equals the number of spawn points required to return the creature to play. All spawned units must be placed within 5cm of any Synapse creature from the swarm spawning them. They may not be placed in the zone of control of enemy units or in impassable terrain. Not all spawn points must be used and any extras are discarded. Adding Brood creatures to an already broken swarm will not change its broken status and it must attempt to Rally normally.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:37 pm 
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Ginger, you only roll 2d3 once, not per swarm.
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Chroma
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:41 pm 
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(Ginger @ Jun. 21 2008,13:27)
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- Determine the number of base ?spawn points? available to it:- roll 2D3 (or 1D3 if it is within 30cm of an enemy formation).

Ginger, I think you're still confused a bit.  *laugh*

At the start of the End Phase, the Tyranid player makes a single "2D3" roll: swarms far from the enemy get this number as a base number of spawn points, modified by Synapse creatures or broken status.  Swarms near the enemy get half this number (rounded down) as their base, modified by Synapse creatures or broken status.

You only make the 2D3 roll *once* a turn, and each swarm gets that number (or half) before spawning.

Clear?  *laugh*

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:30 pm 
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Great effort on the new list guys!!

Hopefully this will kickstart the nid board again and get us all playing our bugs again! Orkybob and I are planning on combining our nid armies soon to take on the rest of our group. Before we do I'll test out the new list and post some feedback.

Once again - thanks for al the hard work!

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Ginger
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:52 pm 
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Thanks again Chroma. It is amazing how far a dunderhead like me get get it wrong ?*Laugh*

So for the more challenged amoung us (like me), perhaps the words could be revised thus :- Spawning allows the Tyranid player to return Brood creature units to play that have been killed, removed from play, or held in reserve.
At the start of the End Phase, determine the base "spawning" points for the army by throwing 2D3. Then for each swarm :-
- Halve the base ?spawn points? if it is within 30cm of an enemy formation (rounded down).
- Add all its Synapse creatures' Synapse (+x) values to this number,
- If the swarm is broken, modify this total by -3
- Use the total "spawn" points to return a number of brood creatures to the swarm

Brood creatures have "Brood (x)" in their notes where "x" equals the number of spawn points required to return the creature to play. All spawned units must be placed within 5cm of any Synapse creature from the swarm spawning them. They may not be placed in the zone of control of enemy units or in impassable terrain. Not all spawn points must be used and any extras are discarded. Adding Brood creatures to an already broken swarm will not change its broken status and it must attempt to Rally normally.
Have I got it now??

Ok, an observation at this point is there will be a wide variation in the spawning capabilities of each swarm, because they are now based on the Synapse groups. Were the synapse point values re-aligned with this new simplified ?:p ?approach?




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