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What's in a name?  Everything.
Moscovian
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:24 pm 
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I've been bantering with ePilgrim over his Demiurg list, trying to convince him he should change the name of it so there was no conflict with the existing direction GW is going (was going?).  Both of us agree 'Squat' is a rather derogatory term.  So is there a better name out there?
Any suggestions on what the Squats would call themselves?  Just throwing it out there.  I doubt he'll ever change the name of the list (being as stubborn as his fictional counterparts) but it was bugging me enough to post the question.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:31 pm 
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I'll admit that when I first heard them called "Squats" I wasn't too crazy about it, but it has grown on me. I don't really see it as a derogatory term.

How about just calling them what their name is in fantasy: Dwarfs? That's what Squats are, sci-fi Dwarfs. Or perhaps something Tolkienesque, as the folks at EW did with Khazalid, which I really like.




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semajnollissor
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:43 pm 
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:45 pm 
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(semajnollissor @ Jun. 02 2008,14:43)
QUOTE
Gnomon

I don't know. It sounds too much like Gnome.

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:48 pm 
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Squats are Squats...




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Moscovian
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:53 pm 
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Truly do you see any large scale society agreeing en masse to being called Squats?  That's like assuming the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be okay with being called "Muties".  I already know what they are and what the Imperium refers to them as - this was never a question.  But what would the Squats call themselves?

T

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blackhorizon
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:56 pm 
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Is GW going somewhere with their Demiurg?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:09 pm 
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(blackhorizon @ Jun. 02 2008,19:56)
QUOTE
Is GW going somewhere with their Demiurg?

Not anymore.


Call 'em Squats ; Anyone old enough to have an army of Squats will generally have been calling them Squats for the last fifteen years. :D

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Moscovian
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:16 pm 
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Perhaps some of you are missing the point - I am not suggesting changing the name 'Squats'.  Just trying to fluff out the concept behind the name much the same way ePilgrim did with the Demiurg list.  They are still Squats, but thinking that the Squats would call themselves Squats is like the Anti-Defamation League naming themselves Kikes, although probably not as derogatory (I don't know as I am not 4 feet tall and 3 feet wide and living on a high gravity world).

The whole idea is to provide a preplacement name for 'Demiurg'.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:18 pm 
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Oh, it depends on what fluff you're going by.

If it's something close to the original fluff, they'd call themselves Abhumans, or maybe even Dwarfs!*



* It could be a post-modern thing ; They refer to themselves as Dwarfs, which they know are fictional, due to their self-awareness of the fact that they have a strong resemblence to the fantasy dwarf archetype... little do they know that they're also fictional! :D

Or something. :)




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zombocom
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:31 pm 
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If you want to go PC, Demiurg is the way to go. It fits with GW's current fluff, and since there's basically no danger of them ever doing anything with the race you don't have to worry about not matching GW's fluff. Short of the BFG stuff there will probably be no further mention of them.

If you want nostalgia, go with squats. I wouldn't worry about the non-PC nature of the name, since "Dwarf" is considered pretty derogatory anyway. Not to mention how utterly racist the fantasy Orcs and Goblins army is... Savage Orcs with big lips and bones through their ears, wearing fur and carrying stone clubs? Jeez.

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:03 pm 
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From the "You already knew this" files...

Well, the truth is Squats and Demiurg are two different things (going by available background material). The Squats were decendents of humans that settled on high gravity worlds during the dark age of technology (the same time humans colonized the rest of the galaxy). As it happens, the Squat worlds were close enough that they were able to maintain contact with each other even after the warp became too dangerous to use (they used sublight ships). They were able to maintain (and even improve) on the STC systems they had, so they never lost the technology from the dark age. Over the years, they evolved/genetically modified themselves to better deal with the high grav worlds they lived on (they got shorter and stronger). They are basically like Ogryns and Ratlings, just more widespread, and far better organized.

The Demiurg, on the other hand, are supposed to be a entirely new race, not at all related to humans. I say "supposed to be" because not a whole lot has been said about them in any official publications (as far as I know, though some of the Tau BFG stuff might mention something). There was a Jes Goodwin concept sketch floating around the 'net a few years back that clearly showed them to be non-human, but that's not really official either, I guess. They were supposed to fill the thematic niche left after the Squats got deleted - basically GW taking a do-over. The Demiurg were not just the Squats with a new name.

That means, if you want Squat = Demiurg, you have to decide who you want the group to be. Are they the same as the Squats from SM/TL, or are they a different race entirely? If they are the same guys from SM/TL, just keep calling them Squats to avoid confusion. If you want them to have a completely new background and units, call them the Demiurg.

Going the Demiurg route would allow for alot more tinkering with new unit types that might get people looking for old-school Squats a bit miffed - a new Demiurg titan might be more accepted than a Squat titan, for example.
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Erik M
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:49 pm 
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I think semajnollissor summed it up fairly well.

And apart from that, isn't all of them, squat, ratling and ogre, part of the demiurg? Ie demi-human. Could be wrong there, but that's what's ticking in the back of my head when I hear the term demiurg.

Anyhow, squats are squats. :D

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:32 pm 
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Really? What does it say?

Any other regiment stories? Which white dwarfs?

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