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Manticore
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 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:14 am 
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Here is the template size difference:


You can clearly see that you can place more stands under the large template unless units under make a line :)

If the opportunity of changing manticores, I would say

- can place large large template instead of 3 standards (in the case of the manticore detachment is complete)
- Firepower is divided by 3 so large template is 6BP
- as the large template use less firepower, this way of fire can be used in 2 consecutives turns but it will need a complete turn to fully recharge to be able to fire again.

Turn1: large template
Turn 2: large template (3 standard templates prohibited)
Turn 3: recharge

Or

Turn 1: 3 standard templates
Turn 2: recharge
Turn 3: large template or 3 small templates

Or

Turn 1: large template
Turn 2: recharge
Turn 3: 3 small template

But a question arrives: can I still launch a large barrage if some of the manticore have been destroyed ? I would say no as manticore are usually made to launch a small template...So this would include new wording to explain it etc etc... So keeping manticores as they're actually could be fine :)




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loofnick
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:04 pm 
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It's an option, but I don't like adding complication.  The diagram's helpful (for us with sawdust for brains).
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zap123
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:24 pm 
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Getting too complicated now.  Just leave things the way they are.  If you think Manticores are too weak don't use them.

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primarch
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:53 am 
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(zap123 @ May 14 2008,11:24)
QUOTE
Getting too complicated now.  Just leave things the way they are.  If you think Manticores are too weak don't use them.

Hi!

No worries for now. When the time comes (soon), I'm making a thread to cover the IG artillery in full. I think if we look at all of them and balance them according to each one's function, then we'll get it right.

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zap123
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:49 am 
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I don't think there is any need to touch them since we fixed the Medusa.  All the rest seem fine, and not all units can be first stringers.  In a list as rich as the Guard there has to be some units that just aren't as good as others.  If we start messing with things we'll end up with E40K....lots of bland.

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primarch
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:15 am 
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(zap123 @ May 15 2008,19:49)
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I don't think there is any need to touch them since we fixed the Medusa.  All the rest seem fine, and not all units can be first stringers.  In a list as rich as the Guard there has to be some units that just aren't as good as others.  If we start messing with things we'll end up with E40K....lots of bland.

Hi!

Hehe, good point.

Oh well, I look them over anyways and see what I come up with.

It's looking like you may be right and most will stay the same.

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duz.holger
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:46 am 
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funny i love the old mantys its one of the best mass artilleries in netepic (if you use both companies and alternate)

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zap123
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:00 am 
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See, every unit has its fans :D

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primarch
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:49 pm 
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(zap123 @ May 18 2008,21:00)
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See, every unit has its fans :D

Hi!

Point taken.  :)

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Napalm
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:16 pm 
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Well, you can still move and reload, instead of being "stuck" in first fire for the whole battle.
And:
-It has a 200cm range.
-It can fire independently
-3 barrage templates with 6 bp each.

Compare this to a whirlwind:
-150cm range
-fire with the rest of the unit
-1 template with 2 crappy bp.

Who is the sucky unit? :)
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primarch
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:37 am 
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(Napalm @ May 21 2008,18:16)
QUOTE
Well, you can still move and reload, instead of being "stuck" in first fire for the whole battle.
And:
-It has a 200cm range.
-It can fire independently
-3 barrage templates with 6 bp each.

Compare this to a whirlwind:
-150cm range
-fire with the rest of the unit
-1 template with 2 crappy bp.

Who is the sucky unit? :)

Hi!

LOL! Good one.  :D

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 2:14 pm 
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I've never thought that Manticores suck. If they didn't require a turn to reload, then you'd probably see them in every IG army and they would need a points increase.

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Pettan
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:30 pm 
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-3 barrage templates with 6 bp each.


The manticore has -0 in its save i believe

Compare this to a whirlwind:
-150cm range
-fire with the rest of the unit
-1 template with 2 crappy bp.

In my opinion the whirlwind has allways been a disgrace to the Empire forces. I guess the crappyness comes with its movement of 20 cm but in my opinion its still one of the worst units in their arse-nal. It has been said before though that not every unit can be top notch... I for one never use them and since the manticore is under discussion aswell the Company card "Rocket Company" is quite weak...
The empire missile weapons are generally sucky (excluding titan weapons). The 1st & 2nd world war copies are alot better - Bombard, Basilisk, Goliath mega cannon and probably more..

/Peter




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duz.holger
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:39 pm 
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it is and always will be one of the best anti infantry artillery pieces i have pointed orc clans to the ground with a rocket company against horde armies its deadly try to think what you can do against nids its the only time i have won against the nids as IG by using 2 rocket companies an one artillery company

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Napalm
 Post subject: Manticore
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:46 pm 
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(Pettan @ May 22 2008,15:30)
QUOTE
-3 barrage templates with 6 bp each.


The manticore has -0 in its save i believe

Yes, i mean 3x 6cm templates, 6bp each, and no save modifier.
The whirlwind juste one template and 2bp.

But i do agree, whirlwind are total crap.
Rocket company is ok against army with a lot of infantry, but artillery company is far better (bombards destroy towns and kick heavy tanks asses !)

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