Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 3
  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

The Quake Cannon
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
The Quake Cannon.

Currently is is:

3BP
90cm range
Macro-Weapon

+75pts

How about:

3BP
120cm range
Ignores Cover
Slow Firing
+75pts


I ask because, historically, the Quake Cannon did ignore cover, but we want to avoid it being overpowered.

It's worth noting that Jervis changed the rulebook's 'collector's' Quake Cannon to being Slow firing in the 2008 Errata.

So... ?

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:15 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
Well, bully for the collectors stats! :)

Slow fire is just a sod, especially on a non assault weapon.

Why not
3BP (a given since thats how the system scales)
90cm range (allows deployment zone strikes, who needs more)
Ignore Cover
+50pts (because it isn't that good, give it disrupt and maybe +75pts, but a nice 50pts is good :) )

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
The range mod is suggested because:

- historically, the Quake Cannon was longer-ranged than the Volcano Cannon.

- In 40k currently, the Quake Cannon is longer-ranged than the Volcano Cannon.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ragnarok
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:39 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England

(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 27 2008,19:16)
QUOTE
- In 40k currently, the Quake Cannon is longer-ranged than the Volcano Cannon.

so is the MRL/ Apocalypse missile launcher, but in epic it has asmaller range.

I would go for TRC's second set of stats, with ignore cover and disrupt.

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:48 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
If you really wanted the 120 range go for the disrupt model for 75? (Hope its not to cheap.)

But really 90cm is horizon range in Epic. Longer range could be in regard to alternate fire or indirect mods etc.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PlushWombat
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:03 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:03 am
Posts: 135
Location: State of Confusion (USA)
Instead of 3BP

How about

Range 90 cm (or 75 cm) ?4x AP 4+ / AT 4+ disrupt +50 points

_________________
Cry Havoc! and Let Slip the Puppies of Confusion!
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:17 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

(PlushWombat @ Apr. 27 2008,21:03)
QUOTE
Instead of 3BP

How about

Range 90 cm (or 75 cm)  4x AP 4+ / AT 4+ disrupt +50 points

It definitely qualifies as a BP weapon, and a big bad one at that.

In 40k, it's so big that a Reaver Titan isn't even allowed to carry it.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PlushWombat
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:53 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:03 am
Posts: 135
Location: State of Confusion (USA)

(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 27 2008,21:17)
QUOTE
It definitely qualifies as a BP weapon, and a big bad one at that.

In 40k, it's so big that a Reaver Titan isn't even allowed to carry it.

For such a big bad weapon, it does remarkably little damage to heavy armor. ???

One would think that a Warlord hit by two of these bad boys would suffer more than a max of 4 hits :)

Since we seem not to be following any of the current Appocalyspe rules development, I am assuming that here and now in our own alternate universe? :) ?we will continue to see Reavers armed with quake cannons.

_________________
Cry Havoc! and Let Slip the Puppies of Confusion!
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:08 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Essentially the Quake Cannon is an oversized Earthshaker (see the name similarities?)
They even have the same Strength and Armour Piercing values but the Quake Cannons Template has double the radius of the Earthshaker's Template, fires twice as often and has a greatly increased range.*

In my Wh40kStatsToEpicSystem a Quake Cannon would have 180cm 2BP Indirect Fire, Disrupt, Blast.

But Blast is an invention of my own (with some help) which double the hits on the targeted formation it would be 4BP* without new special rules. Then take into accout that the range of Titan-sized weapons in Epic eg Volcano Cannon is lower.
So 150cm** 4BP IndirectFire, Disrupt would look sensible.

* Which fits: The Earthshaker has 1BP. Double this for the double sized Template of the Quake Canon = 2BP Then double it again because the Quake Cannon fires twice as often as the Earthshaker = 4BP.
** About the same range as a Manticore.

Because the Quake Cannon is a oversized Earthshaker  i also propose the same dual fire mode. Because the Quake Cannonis twice as effective as the Earthshaker i would suggest either 2 x AP4+/AT4+ or AP3+/AT3+

So final stats should be either:
150cm 4BP or2 x AP4+/AT4+ Indirect Fire

OR
150cm 4BP orAP3+/AT3+ Indirect Fire

with the same Notes as the Basilisk (= Indirect Fire can only be used if firing Barrages).
Here i skipped Disrupt only because the Earthshaker hasn't it but you could trade it for a BP i think.




_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
J0k3r
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:59 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 876
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Out of interest- whats the tremor cannon?

_________________
"Do not offend the Chair Leg of Truth; it is wise and terrible."
-Spider Jerusalem
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:00 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
The main gun of the Basilisk.
And...oops....damn. Thats the name in Germany...i edit it to Earthshaker.... :blush:




_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:29 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
My 2 cents as they say . . . . .

Since many (most?) people play across a 4' (120 cms)table, I would keep the range at 90cms maximum purely for reasons of playability. This is the same reason that I have also argued for a long time that the Basilisk and Manticore ought to be reduced in range to 75cms and 90 cms (to force them to use indirect fire to target the  enemy deployment zone).

To my mind, no weapon ought to be able to sustain directly at a target in the enemy deployment zone -  as TRC says, this represents being able to see beyond the horizon, and also breaks the original (and elegant) concept of "elastic" distances which allow us to model off-table formations in the army rear.

As for the other stats, I dislike slow firing - but OTOH, a "Paris" gun of the kind you are suggesting is not going to have a high rate of fire now is it?? But being pragmatic, how would you remember whether it has fired - and worse, if you had several of the things on a single model, how many are available to fire at any given point?? (the simple solution might be to make it slightly more expensive and require the player to buy them in pairs; effectively saying that it takes up two slots) :p

As an aside, you should note that the main armament of WWII battleships of all nationalities had a rate of fire of approximately 2 shells per minute - and these were effectively the same weapons that were used as "railway guns" on land. So perhaps we should dispense with "slow firing" all together??

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:31 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Since we seem not to be following any of the current Appocalyspe rules development, I am assuming that here and now in our own alternate universe? :)  we will continue to see Reavers armed with quake cannons.


Indeed, we won't be adopting the Apoc weapon restrictions.

Apoc & FW's Reaver work is a good resource for us (Because it's the first time in years that the Studio has taken a more-than-cursory look at the Titans), but it's not the be-all and end-all, because unlike the Studio we have legacy issues to deal with.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Onyx
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:21 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 3416
Location: Western Australia

(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 28 2008,01:49)
QUOTE
3BP
120cm range
Ignores Cover
Slow Firing
+75pts

No thanks E&C.

Pointless weapon and not worth taking with these stats.

Are they being over-used, expolted? Are Titan armies that have Quake cannons winning every game? They are expensive and powerful... Whats wrong with that?

Slow firing is annoying (but obviously used as a balancing mechanism) when a round in Epic is supposed to be several minutes (15?) long.
Please... NO slow firing!
And regarding Jervis' change to Slow Firing, it only just happened after years as they were before. Whats to say he won't change it again in another decade...?

Lets just get a playable, fair & fun list. Who knows when GW will change the rules again? (they have a history here).

My vote is to leave it as it is.




_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:58 am 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm
Posts: 4893
Location: North Yorkshire
Reading through the above and noting some very good suggestions, I feel that the weapon could be slow firing, but to make it worth while it would need to be 4BP in strength.

This would allow a player to field two on a titan and either go with a single larger shot everyother turn or a constant output of 4BP.

As to the actual cost for the weapon this will go down to the final range.

MRL - 3BP 60cm range
Quake - 4 BP Slow Firing - 90cm @ +50pts
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - 120cm @ +75pts

I would lean towards a 90cm range.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 3
  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net