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Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
Ginger
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:22 am 
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WARNING
What follows is quite detailed and lengthy and slightly addictive to certain kinds of personality. Also you should note that any similarity between these figures and Army lists or unit stats is purely co-incidental :p .

The Golden relationship
Working through Titans, armour, weapons and shields has a marked similarity to warship design of the late C19th and early C20th, so I thought it might be fun to apply some of the principles to titans. In essence there is a relationship between the size of a ship?s hull and the weight of armour, weapons and engines it can carry. In turn the total power of the engines compared with the size and all-up weight of the ship determines the speed of the vessel. Finding the ideal compromise between speed, armour and firepower is the heart of the ?golden relationship?.

Basic elements in the calculations
    After a little trial and error, I came up with the following elements measured in Units of Weight (w) and units of Power consumption (p):-
    - Each structural unit weighs 1w and can support 12w and the mechanisms for one weapon mount
    - Each power plant weighs 4w, and can move 35w at 5 cms.
    - Each DC of armour weighs 1w.
    - Each Shield weighs 1w and consumes 2p.
    - Each normal titan weapon weighs 1w and consumes 1p.
    - Each medium titan weapon weighs 2w and consumes 3p.
    - Each large titan weapon weighs 3w and consumes 5p.
Using these figures ?gives the following results for the titans using ?standard? weapons:-

Warhound (3DC, 2x shields and 2x weapons)
    Total weight = 34w (just inside the structural amount of 36w for the three units needed to carry all that power).
    Power consumption=36p.
    6x power plants will move the Warhound at a speedy 29.12 cms.

    To up-gun the titan, you can use medium weapons (at greater cost) which reduce the speed to 26.25 cms, but to mount a third medium weapon, you would have to drop both shields to stay in the weight limits.

    To make it go faster you need an extra power plant and have to drop both shields and use only one ?standard? weapon to achieve 35cms.
Reaver 6DC, 4x shield and 3x weapons
    Total weight = 32w (well inside the structural amount of 36w for three units).
    Power consumption=36p.
    4x power plants will move the Reaver at an acceptable 19.44 cms.

    To up-gun the titan, you would need to add another weapon mount, but adding 4x medium or large weapons reduces the speed to 15.22 cms.

    You can make it go faster by adding an extra power plant, and dropping 2x shields and using 2 ?standard? weapons. Doing this increases the speed to ~25cms
Warlord 8DC, 6x shield and 4x weapons
    Total weight = 38w (well inside the structural amount of 48w for four units).
    Power consumption=44p.
    4x power plants move the Warlord with ?standard? weapons at a sedate 15.91 cms. ?

    To up-gun this titan, you also need to add more power, but 5x power plants still move the Warlord armed with 2x large and 2x medium weapons at 14.88 cms. However it is at its structural limit so cannot support 4x large weapons. If you want to up-gun the titan to 5 weapons, you would need to add another weapon mount, but then 5x large weapons reduces the speed to 12.5 cms.

    Alternatively, you can drop down to 2x ?medium? weapons and 4x shields for a nippy beast that rumbles along at 21 cms.
Other War engines and units
    Shadowswords, Baneblades etc use 1x power plant to move the 3x small weapon mounts at 15.91 cms (the additional weight is for the other secondary weapons etc)

    Leman Russ get 19.44cms when carrying 3x small weapons with their single DC armour


Here are the calcs (edited to onclude the Ordinatii)
=============================




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Markconz
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:39 am 
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OMG!! :D

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:45 am 
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And people think that all this work is random :;):

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:04 am 
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I have no idea how this all works, but I like it.  My only concern is that the warhound has 150% of the reactors that the larger titans have, but there again a urely maths point of view can't handle such things as articulator type. (ie the warhound is built for speed, whilst the bigger two are built towalk causually)

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:09 am 
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How casually? :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:31 am 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 13 2008,10:09)
QUOTE
How casually? :)

A Warlord Titan walks into a bar...




Interesting schtuff. :)

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Ginger
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:45 pm 
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(ragnarok @ Apr. 13 2008,09:04)
QUOTE
I have no idea how this all works, but I like it. ?My only concern is that the warhound has 150% of the reactors that the larger titans have, but there again a urely maths point of view can't handle such things as articulator type. (ie the warhound is built for speed, whilst the bigger two are built towalk causually)

Basically it is an Excel spreadsheet, and if you take the basic elements listed at the top and apply them to each titan, you get the weight and power consumption. So if you end up with a titan containing a single power plant that consumes a total of 35p, it will move at 5 cms.

To make it go faster, you need to add some more engines, but these also add weight (w) which may then exceed the structural capacity of 12w per structural unit; so now you need to add more structural units (ie making it bigger) and slower - so you need further engines to make it go faster etc.

As for the number of engines in a WarHound for this model, although it looks a bit strange it does demonstrate the principles. For example, I believe WWII destroyers had a significant part of the hull taken up by several boilers and turbines which needed to be linked together to generate the tremendous speeds they were capable of, while battleships were much bigger to create the buoyancy needed for the weight of armour and weaponry, and hence much slower. Anyhow, it is just a bit of fun.

And E&C, if you were about to tell Warlod Titan joke #58 about "the one that got away", I've heard it before! :laugh:

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:57 pm 
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This is really cool :D

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PlushWombat
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:37 pm 
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Aieeeeeee!

The math! It burns! :confuse:

Personally, I believe its all a matter of faith. ?:D ?

As long as we believe in titans... they will continue to function. ?

The minute we began to question their reality... they will cease to function and come crashing to the ground! ?:(

Regards

PlushWombat

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:08 pm 
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Damn you, Ginger! Now I will need to get the pens and calculator out and play with creating my own variants!

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:52 pm 
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(Ginger @ Apr. 13 2008,07:45)
QUOTE
As for the number of engines in a WarHound for this model, although it looks a bit strange it does demonstrate the principles. For example, I believe WWII destroyers had a significant part of the hull taken up by several boilers and turbines which needed to be linked together to generate the tremendous speeds they were capable of, while battleships were much bigger to create the buoyancy needed for the weight of armour and weaponry, and hence much slower. Anyhow, it is just a bit of fun.

My only concern with this analysis is that you assume that all engines are the same size. I could be completely wrong, but I doubt that WWII destroyers used the same boilers and turbines as battleships.

In any case, fantastic work, Ginger.  :cool:  It does attempt to rationalize Titan stats and the relation between speed, weapons and the number of void shields. Keep up the good work!

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NOVAGUARD
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:59 pm 
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the system reads alot like BATTLETECH...

looks impressive thou.

The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 13 2008,10:09)
QUOTE
How casually?

A Warlord Titan walks into a bar...


Crunch!

:p

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:46 pm 
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yeah, that does read a bit like BT.

and most of a WW2 DD hull was nothing but engineroom amidships.  magazines and whatnot were at the ends of the ship.  That general rule is still pretty true today, although turbines are significantly smaller than steam or diesel plants of comparable power (they make up for that in terms of fuel bunkerage needed).

This is a lot simpler than fighting through the conversion from HG to Blitz to E:A, though!

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Ginger
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:19 am 
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Not quite what I was trying to find, but PP 512 and 513 of the Encyclopaedia of WWII weapons has a diagram of the kind of space that the boilers and turbines took up in a Flower class Escort - and the book is a nice read too :blues:

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hallonapl
 Post subject: Imperial Titan "pseudo science"
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:29 am 
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(NOVAGUARD @ Apr. 15 2008,22:59)
QUOTE
The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 13 2008,10:09)
QUOTE
How casually?

A Warlord Titan walks into a bar...


Crunch!

:p

*ROFL*

Love the maths! Now, let's associate points costs with all these numbers! ?:cool: ?:;):

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