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what is wrong with the US and DK armys
duz.holger
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:04 pm 
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I am watching discoverer channels future weapons and it stricks me there is something fundamentally wrong with US weapon design they are still clinging to the basic M16 design while the rest of the world as embraced the bull-pop design invented by styer back in the early 70th.
the british, French, Chinese, Israeli  even the Russians is using bull-pop in there weapon systems even H&K is fiddling  around with it but US still use old front magazine loaded assault rifles and when they discover the limitations on it they just redesign the ammo instead of the weapon design.
i am from Denmark and the Danish army has just  adopted the M16A2 a few years back and i was flabbergasted by it.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:45 pm 
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Possibly because the M16 is now so robust and easy to maintain while switching to a new standard will be a major undertaking.  According to a mate of mine who has used them the british SA-80 is a  great weapon he reckons its over complicated and prone to jamming.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:10 pm 
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I love the M16A2!  In seven years I had two weapon jams, and that is crawling around in the sand too.  Of course that was Arizona sand, not Iraqi sand.  I'm not sure which one jams more. :p

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duz.holger
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:23 pm 
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yes but AUG is 30 years old and incredible reliable the FAMAS is also extremely robust the chines weapon is also nearly 30 years old and we all know that L85 is a Shiite weapon compered to other bull-pop designs but the idea of bull-pop is brilliant take the AUG its nearly 30cm shorter then M16 and it still have the same barrel length and that is a brilliant thing and more important the weight is much more correct based with almost all the weight in the back in the stock and behind the tricker witch give a much more reliable shot but the point is that i saw that Knight industries has taken a M4/M16 tricker system and shorten the weapon down to sub machine-gun size and when they realised that it wouldn't work they redesigned the bullet instead of the weapon and i have seen other ideas of whole new weapons systems from US but they still stubbornly keeps to the front magazine style weapons

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duz.holger
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:25 pm 
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the point is the front magazine type weapon is obsolete and US weapon designers hasn't realised it

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duz.holger
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:40 pm 
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yes but styer and the Chinese and even the new Russian is full left/right modifiable and in a single shot bull-pop is more accurate if you compare it to similar weapons with the same overall length weapon, and it is much more comfortable to use a bull-pop weapon exactly because its back heavy witch a good thing if you want a prises single shot standing or knelling

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duz.holger
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:54 pm 
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styer AUG is just move the ejector Guard blocker from left to right and i haven't much expressions about the new Russian or the Chinese rifles for a good reason

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Legion 4
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:28 am 
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Hmmm ... Something I have a working knowlegde of.  Having "humped" a 16 for about 15 years or so in with one unit or another.  Much of what is said is very true about many of the weapons systems mentioned here.  Ya boyz did your home work !  And of course you troopers who "packed" them know the deal.   Warfare is going thru a transition again. As it did from the ACW to WWI and then WWII and then again post WWII to now.  As we saw in Vietnam, and now in the urban terrain and mountains of SW Asia. The M-16 will eventually, probably in a decade more or less, be replaced. I've heard about some of the concept weapons being designed and tested. If they work out to specs, they'll be Muthas.  But remember, a weapon is only as good as the Trooper(or terrorist !?) pack'n it. I personally have a "civilianized" CAR-15, with 40 round assault mags (made in the UK!) and a number of 30 rounders too. That is my "home defense" weapon, just in case ...                    I was most familiar with the system, and ammo & mags were "easily" available ...  Works for me and it appears it so does a lot of other people/armies ! :D But wait until you see what comes next ! :)

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duz.holger
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:36 am 
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the whole thing started when one of my friends in the Danish Defence academy who is asked me about about riffle systems yes she is civilian but she is professor in military tactics and she was working on a project on the next gen. of military tactics in a holistic fashion

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:15 am 
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duz... I'm sure there are many forums where real life military & politics are the main topic of discussion.

Here at Tactical Command however we don't discuss most 'real life' stuff unless there's a very exceptional event, because a lot of people have very strong opinions on some of these subjects, and it can lead to an unpleasant atmosphere at times (For example, enourmous Atheist vs Fundamental Religious fights are completely inevitable if you allow fully-open discussion).


Thus, I have spoken. :)

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duz.holger
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:42 am 
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sorry but one this forum i know i can find people with military experians from all corners of the world and i thank you for your input my i have forwarded it to my friend and she is gradly satisfied for the input she has even promised if the military doesn't classifies her report she will ask me to post it her so you can get some tactical indput from real life tacticians so i hop you can bere over with this she was in deep trouble because she actually doesn't have real military  experians and neither does her ordinary (me) have it so when its down to specific weapons systems she is in deep trouble  and she can't ask the pro's in the DK army because they only have DK xp i am sorry for my provocative way of asking the question but it was needed to get the right response i thank you and so does maria of all our harts

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:54 am 
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The biggest problem in switching to a new weapon is your logistics chain. If you are set for one weapon, switching to another is a massive undertaking, especially when you are a global force like the US.

Far easier for incremental change, for instance the H&K improved M16 (in the same vien they improved the SA80).

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