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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
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Ahh, that stuff smells funny.
The list. I take it maxing on allies is advised?
Actually I think you're the first person who's really maxed out on Allies, and as a consequence I'll probably be dragging a lot of the Allies into the Support Formation area.
Flak. Thunderbolts and carapace multi lasers? Thats a bit sparse. ...Still, at least everyone will have to learn how to use thunderbolts well
Indeed!
There was some talk about giving Titans (And by extention, Ordinatii) a dedicated AA weapon system mind you.
Navy - AM has its own Navy, so fliers could be in the support section.
I'm vaguely mulling over the idea of eliminating the Allies restriction altogether, and simply putting the Allies into the support slots...
Skitari. I realy don't like these guys. 5 is a worse number in Epic compared to 6 for BP purposes making them harder to price properly.
The number five has been picked due to fluff reasons (The Ad-Mech seem to like multiples or neat divisions of 100 for their formation sizes)
Also their stats are a bit wierd. They are apparently twice as tough as Orks and as tough as stormtroopers. Armour save in Epic is a function of physical protection, toughness, speed/size and training (as a destroyed stand ain't nessecerily dead, merely disrupted beyond combat effectiveness). Stormtroopers are elites trained from birth in a sci-fi fashion, skitari are a bunch of soldiers with better than flak armour and some red lights coming out of their eyes. 6+ save fits them more neatly between the two groups and puts them on par with Orks.
They have the same armour as Storm Troopers, and instead of superior training they have implanted bionics to increase their toughness, and often a mind wipe & programming so that all they know is how to conduct war (Well, they can probably eat too, but talking about the weather is definitely beyond their capabilities).
In 40k, they are actually harder to kill than Storm Troopers, as they have the same armour (Carapace) plus they also have an Invulnerable save to represent their bionics... though I'm well aware of the perils of following 40k too closely.
Their weapons are a bit odd as well, they have apparently twice the firepower of regular guard and are on par with marines. I did like the earlier lot with heavy bolters. Higher firepower, but the lack of AT was a nice touch if you consider now they couldn't blow up their nice Armour toys 
I'm not adverse to giving these guys Heavy Bolters instead of Autocannons, it feels quite in-theme (Leave the AT targets for the Rapiers or the Titans!).
Cat blow up rules. Fine as a Legio specific rule but the book titans don't need the boost so make it this legio only. Plus does it apply to warhounds?
Yes it would, but I think I'll be taking this rule out in the next version...
Warhounds
I'm sure after a few more dozen battle you will come to the conclusion that mono weapon fits are the best, 'cos they are
I agree.
Though I do like a Warhound Pack that has 2x Inferno guns & 2x VMBs.
Epic being the way it is you want the most firepower as quickly as possible and having specialised units make this a lot easier. A fix taken from a previous list would be
Warhound - take two different weapons from the scout titan list
Warhound pack - take any 4 weapons from the scout list
This allows people with mono weapon warhounds to use them in pack, but single warhounds have to retain a bit of variation.
Noted.
Scout weapons
Like the TLD idea. Since you have done that why not include the Rocket Launcher to keep those with them modeled on happy?
Because they don't have access to rocket launchers in 40k, and it's not too much of a counts-as stretch to say that they're Inferno Guns.
OTOH, this is the War Gryphons army list, and not the rather unnamed list from 40k...
Weapon names
Surely the twin barrel TLD can just be the turbo laser destructor?
Yeah probably... it was renamed so as to prep for the triple barelled turbolaser, only to find that the triple barrelled turbolaser is now known as a... Laser Blaster.
Apocalypse Missile Launcher - come on, its a silly name and more importantly a missile is a guided weapon. This thing is a big MRL, saturating an area with rockets, cluster munitions etc. I'm going to keep calling it a rocket launcher
You don't fancy us having a 'Ragnarok Quake Cannon' then? 
The weapons
Gatlings are the equal of TLD
I reckon they're worth about 20pts as compared to the TLD's 25pts, but they'll be going back up to 25pts in the next version...
Corvus pod ? useless for the list unles si wanted some kind of super transport for my allies. Allowing the troops onboard to fire or even better giving it something like +2EA FF would be better.
You don't think it's useful for the Skitarii army list?
CC Weapon equally useless. Why would anyone take it? Previous generic options were a lot better.
It's identical in stat to the previous version Power Fist, and now the titan is cheaper if you take a CCW... which means if it's useless now, it was doubly useless under v2.
How would you fix the Power Fist type weapon?
Laser Burner ? bit tasty. With a list to exploit it (prob using allies/knights) would be a terror.
Maybe cut it back to +1 EA in a Firefight, or put it up to +25pts?
Plasma cannon ? OK I see what you want to do with the weapons. Have fun. There was nothing wrong with the 4xMW4+ 60cm though
I wanted the weapons to bear a clear relationship to each other (This has proved moderately popular so far), and was specifically bearing in mind your previous thoughts on the subject when I statted then up and costed them!
Melta Cannon ? you really think its on par with a VC? Surely 25 points at the most.
If it's not, then it needs to be more powerful.
Quake Cannon ? still can't think how to use it well. 3BP Disrupt and 50 points I would use. Anything more cuts into the activations too much.
I've found it to be an incredibly powerful weapon.
Carapace landing Pad (its not a fire control centre!) - 150 is how much? Surely if you want to charge lots make it 50 points? But thats just not worth it. Its a thunderbolt Squadron and a free weapon!
It assumes that you're going to take a Warlord Titan with 3x MRL's and a CLP, of course.
Support missiles ? overpriced.
Indeed, let's see how they go at 75pts.
Upgrades. Surely go back up to the previous set of options? Cut down why?
Because to start the balancing process I wanted to cut back on extranous options (AMTL v2 had a bigger army list than pretty much any other I can think of bar Lord I's Inquisition list).
Which upgrades would you like to see returned?
Min maxing
Well of course the ordinatus are there for extra activations?
Let's see what they do to the min-maxing when moved to the Support section, and stripped of one void shield?
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