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AMTL 3.08
Vermis
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:13 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Mar. 26 2008,18:56)
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Apocalypse says:

After thinking about it a minute, it's not so bad; but my first impression of that list isn't good.  I can see, and would agree with, a case for restricting some weapons to some mounts.  E.g. missiles to carapace.  But for some I'm not so sure.  If only because I have the arm-mounted FW warhound weapons (carapace mounts in that list) imprinted in my mind.

(And because I just finished that arm-mounted inferno gun, dammit! :p)
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PlushWombat
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:04 am 
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Greetings all,

I've been giving some thought to plasma weapons and would like to suggest ?the following modifications for consideration.

(Warning..the following contains attempts at fluffy science!) :p

Lets assume for a moment that all plasma weapons fire bursts of plasma energy that resemble balls of flaming death. ?Futhermore, let us assume that these balls of flaming death are not too terribly stable...i.e. they tend to disapate with range.

If this is indeed the case, then a plasma weapon would by nature have a realtively short range and would most probably be viewed and used as a mid-range assault weapon.

As such, perhaps the appropriate range for all plasma weapons should be 45cm to reflect this.

As to the nature of plasma, given the fluff descriptions of it being as hot as the surface of the sun, perhaps giving plasma weapons the disrupt ability would be appropriate. ?

After all, who would not try to avoid getting toasted by incoming balls of flaming death as hot as the sun? ???

In further keeping with the fluff on how plasma weapons are fueled, I feel that slow firing is entirely appropriate. ?

Next up, do we really need 3 seperate types of plasma weapons? Currently we have the blastgun, the cannon, and the destructor. ?

What I would propose for consideration would be the elimination of the plasma cannon. ?We would then have the blast gun that could be as the main armament of the Warhound and as secondary armament on the ?Reaver and Warlord; and the destructor that could be used as the primary armament on the battle titans.

This would be consistant with the Apocalyspe listings and would help to streamline the ver 3.08 list of weapons.

As to deployment, I would suggest limiting the destuctors to arm mounts only to avoid abuse.

The stats: :)

Plasma Blastgun: 2 x MW2+ 45 cm slowfire disrupt cost 25 pts
Plasma Destructor 4 x MW2 45 cm slowfire disrupt cost 75 pts

Yes, the destructor has twice the volume of fire of the blastgun, but it is a much larger weapon designed to be a heavy hitter...which is why it can only be deployed on battle titans!

Under ver 3.08 and this proposal....a Plasma Lord could mount 2 blastguns in the carapcae mounts, and 2 plasma destructors in the arms mounts. ?Cost would be 950 points to field.

Such a change would in my opinion, create a specific niche and use for plasma weapons which would put them between close assualt weapons such as melta cannons, and longer ranged weapons such as lasers and gatling blasters. ?:)

Well thats about it...looking forward to hearing what you all think about this.

Regards

PlushWombat

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Onyx
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:41 am 
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PlushWombat - If you put those Plasma weapons on a Warlord then you're possibly only going to get 1 shot with them in an average 3000pt game. Not good.

Their range is too short and its going to be hard to justify 75pts for the Destructor. It would have to be a much harder hitting weapon to justify selection.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:50 am 
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Unfortunately the stats of the plasma blastgun are set in the rulebook, so we cannot add disrupt to it.

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PlushWombat
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:04 am 
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(Onyx @ Mar. 26 2008,23:41)
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PlushWombat - If you put those Plasma weapons on a Warlord then you're possibly only going to get 1 shot with them in an average 3000pt game. Not good.

Their range is too short and its going to be hard to justify 75pts for the Destructor. It would have to be a much harder hitting weapon to justify selection.

I'm open to suggestions on range and point cost. :)

What about 60 cm range for the destructor?

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PlushWombat

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PlushWombat
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:05 am 
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Evil and Chaos,

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on having just two plasma weapons.

Regards

PlushWombat

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:17 am 
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(PlushWombat @ Mar. 27 2008,00:05)
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Evil and Chaos,

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on having just two plasma weapons.

Regards

PlushWombat

This falls under the same category as my second line in this post: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....y249592

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:43 am 
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With two Plasmaweapons moddeling is easy:
Plasma Cannons are then Plasma Blastguns
Plasma Destructors stay as is.

In Apocalypse Plasma Blastgun and Plasma Destructor have the same stats. The difference is that the Destructor has one more shot in each of it's firing modes than the Blastgun.
But then the range of both is 72" and 96" for the firing modi, which would be 75cm and 90cm in Epic!




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Onyx
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:12 am 
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(PlushWombat @ Mar. 27 2008,07:04)
QUOTE

(Onyx @ Mar. 26 2008,23:41)
QUOTE
PlushWombat - If you put those Plasma weapons on a Warlord then you're possibly only going to get 1 shot with them in an average 3000pt game. Not good.

Their range is too short and its going to be hard to justify 75pts for the Destructor. It would have to be a much harder hitting weapon to justify selection.

I'm open to suggestions on range and point cost. :)

What about 60 cm range for the destructor?

Regards

PlushWombat

A minimum of 60cm is necessary for Slow Fire weapons mounted on a Warlord or they just won't be used.

I prefer 75cm for the Destructor or its not worth taking.

You must have the option to use it twice in a 3 turn game or it will be overlooked for something more affordable.

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rpr
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:49 pm 
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I do not like the disrupt idea to plasma... it is already being pushed to too many places (like big barrages, isn't the BP table already taking this into consideration)

The idea that plasma blastgun is same as plasma cannon is okay, there is already several outlooks for same weapon, no need to have that mnay different weapons.. :]

The Apocalypse weapon lokations are odd in that way that all Warhound "arm" weapons are carapace mounted... and then reaver with 3x rocket launcher would not be allowed which would be ... odd as it is even pictured in rulebook :]
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:18 pm 
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The Apocalypse weapon lokations are odd in that way that all Warhound "arm" weapons are carapace mounted... and then reaver with 3x rocket launcher would not be allowed which would be ... odd as it is even pictured in rulebook :]


The Apocalypse restrictions are restrictions that apply to the Warlord Titan, the Reaver Titan will have different restrictions (Its stats are not published yet).

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:02 pm 
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Interesting turn in the discussion. I would rather hear of more evidence before calling for restrictions on mounts or changing the stats of plasma weapons again. Lets prove that they are too powerful first and then look at what we can do to curb them.

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PlushWombat
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:47 pm 
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(Tiny-Tim @ Mar. 27 2008,13:02)
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I would rather hear of more evidence before calling for restrictions on mounts

Like it or not, Apocalyspe is here to stay and what we have seen so far is a set of weapon mount restrictions for titans.

Perhaps its time rather than fighting against Apcalyspe we acknolledge its existence and try to make our list as compatable as possible. ?

I belive in the long run this would only help us in our quest to revitalize Epic.

Regards

PlushWombat

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:53 pm 
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As I said before, I am highly concrned about forcing people to cut up their pre-constructed titans.

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PlushWombat
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:41 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 27 2008,13:53)
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As I said before, I am highly concrned about forcing people to cut up their pre-constructed titans.

I'm curious, how was this handled when ver 2 was being developed? ?

I have no doubt that it invalidated some titan designs that players used as well.

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PlushWombat

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