(Chroma @ Mar. 01 2008,14:34)
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1) "Beastmen" should probably be called "mutants", as that's how they're referred to in current 40k
I just used the names from the Epic Chaos Sprue thinking it's easier that way since you know which models they are.
(Chroma @ Mar. 01 2008,14:34)
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2) Having your summoning based on a "Icon Bearer" being in the formation is a much greater weakness than the current Black Legion summoning rules. ?A couple of well placed enemy sniper units and your Daemons are going to stay relaxing in the pool all game!
Eldars are the only force that usually has enough snipers to take them out without sacrificing something in return (like moving 350 point formation to move 1 or 2 snipers in range etc). I'd be more worried about barrages and air assaults than some snipers, but eldars probably can do that too (sheesh I hate those pointy eared Cads - and it has nothing to do with the fact that I lost 0-4 against them yesterday with my guards). The weakness is added to compensate for the daemons staying there until the formation breaks or they are destroyed, and because they are now fearless and much less vulnerable to being killed before the end of the phase (it's possible that they are too cheap now but it's hard to tell without trying them out a few times).
(Dave @ Mar. 01 2008,15:00)
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2) Not call the Dreadclaw a unit (as per the change doc's) and give the cruiser a transport capacity (otherwise you can't use Dreadclaws).
I was kinda hoping to actually get to use the models that take money, time, and effort to make by using them as units that give the planetfalling formation some extra size and AV cover if they don't win the strategy roll. The Dreadclaw 'rules' were written on the army list itself and that way removing the need of listing everything a cruiser can carry since it is limited to two formations anyway. If there is some mention somewhere that spacecrafts have to have all their contents listed, then I have to do it but it should be clear enough how they work otherwise, I hope.
(Dave @ Mar. 01 2008,15:00)
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5) You should have to take a greater daemon in order to summon lesser daemons. ?I would make it he other way around.
Aye, this was changed.
(rpr @ Mar. 03 2008,06:40)
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Land Raiders 50 apiece? (except first 4 for 250, but even that is cheap!)
4 Terminators for 4? (again, 100 points less than loyal ones)
I played a game with IG against Death Guard in a tournament couple weeks ago and single a salvo from a manticore battery broke a chaos land raider company (7 or 8 of them, can't remember). They can take beating a lot but they are really easy to suppress or break, and they are slightly worse than Leman Russes. The LR stats on the list are the same as they were in the rulebook, FF5+ instead of 4+, and they are not all that 'hot' except against tanks. It's possible that they are too cheap now but they just don't seem worth the points they were asked before.
(rpr @ Mar. 03 2008,06:40)
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I guess it is intentional that these cannot drop Terminators.
I assume you mean Dreadclaws and yes it is intentional. IA:Crapocalypse lists them as capable of transporting 10 marines or one dread and that's what they can do.
(rpr @ Mar. 03 2008,06:40)
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The new Thousand Sons unit seems to suck when compared to Plague Marines - CC5+, inv ?vs. CC3+
Ahh right. FF should've been 3+ and notes should state that it's due to their psychic abilities and represented on their profile even though they are using bolters.
(rpr @ Mar. 03 2008,06:40)
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The choice of AMTL upgrades to Titans seems quite .. powerful?
I'm sort of making all the core lists for 'personal' use with similar structure and all the other armies have titans listed the same. Until there is balanced Titan Legions, Gargants and Pointy Eared Walker lists, I'll just use the rulebook titans.
(rpr @ Mar. 03 2008,06:40)
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Should the Cultist Retinue be 'total of 8 cultists and/or mutant units'?
That's the intention. I suppose I have to add it there just to make it clearer. I have tried to cut back on the and/or usage and if some formation can take only one type it would be written 'Eight Chaos Cultist or eight Beastman units.' but I'll add the and/or and it should be fine.
(rpr @ Mar. 03 2008,06:40)
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The new Daemon Prince does not seem worth 100+ points... and it cannot be teleported, dropped, transported or have wings.. maybe it should be a character with those stats?
Right. Wings and tellyport, I knew I forgot something. I'll fix these later today if time permits.
(pixelgeek @ Mar. 03 2008,07:28)
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Why did you remove the AA from the Obliterators?
'These oblis work better than your six hydras' - random tournament quote from a player that played against IG and Chaos, and had 19 fighta-bommers. Oblis are a real pain in the ass to get rid of unlike many other forms of ground AA and they close the air too well without making the formation mixed or losing anything in return.
(pixelgeek @ Mar. 03 2008,07:28)
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Nice to see Vindicators. Not sure about the Baneblade though.
It's there to replace Decimator (whatever that is), Plaguereaper, and Whaddayacallit Pussy Wagons of the other gods. Same with the titans, Banelord is nice but I think it should be in a Khorne list instead of a 'generic' chaos list. The Baneblade could have the barrage main gun, fearless through daemonic possession, or anything else but I'd still like to see it called chaos baneblade just to 'unify' it the same way as the daemons were. Plaguereapers and the others can go into god specific lists to replace the chaos baneblades.
(pixelgeek @ Mar. 03 2008,07:28)
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Aside from simplifying the list was there a design goal you had in mind for the army?
The second design goal besides simplifying the list was to use all the models in the Chaos Sprue, including Cultists and Beastmen. It just sucks to buy something and leave 20 percent unused because there are no list for them that uses the rest of the sprue at the same time. Third goal was to use as many online store models as possible, hence the baneblade and not the old chaos engines from the 1990's, and it only has defilers and oblis that need to be scratch built which is nice. Other than that it just tries to represent the 40k Chaos Codex and Crapocalypse units as closely as possible (I like 40k codexes but the rules suck).
