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Red Corsairs (or generic Chaos Space Marines)
BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:29 pm 
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Version 3.2 is uploaded.
(and added Walker to the Brass Scorpion which i forgot)

Now all correct?




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ragnarok
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:43 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Feb. 25 2008,20:29)
QUOTE
Version 3.2 is uploaded.
(and added Walker to the Brass Scorpion which i forgot)

Now all correct?

The Baneblade and the Plague Reaper should have a twin linked heavy bolter in the fixed forward arc, not a single heavy bolter.

Thunderhawks are noted as having two lascannonson their wings, ven though the epic rules don't have them, will you add these weapons in?

Warhounds only have a 5+ RA save not a 4+ RA.

Why do hell blades have reaper auto cannons, when they are armed with quad auto cannons?

Why do Hell Talons have Havoc lauchers instead of dual auto cannons?

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:51 pm 
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Good catch on the Baneblade, Plaguereaper and Warhound.

I use a 1:1 version of the current rules. If i would re-design the Thunderhawk it would be a 3DC, 4+non-RA, war engine with a AP3+/AT3+ Thunderhawk Battlecannon. Just look at my Epic Apocalypse thread. There in the Space Marine file are the stats i would use if i had permission to ;)
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....t=11366

The Hell Blade has twin Reaper Autocannons in the proposal. Personally i would give them twin Autocannons.

Hell Talon has the option of switching the twin Autocannon for a Havoc Launcher. AFAIK the model has a Havoc Launcher and the proposal has it too.

For Hell Blade and Hell Talon discussion see this thread:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....17;st=0

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:54 pm 
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I would do re-do the Thunderhawk as 3DC with 5+ RA.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:03 pm 
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Armour wise in Wh40k it is a flying Dreadnought (12/12/10) so armour 4+ is ok.
But i guess 5+RA (IITC it has roughly the same save probabaillity against AT shots as 4+ non-RA armour) would perhabs show it's resistance against heat based weapons like Multi-meltas and flamers. Infact i delevoped a new specialability called Ceramite Shielding which specifically downgrades the multi-melta from MW5+ to AT5+against the Thunderhawk.

Added the corrections and uploaded Version3.3.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:36 pm 
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Version 3.4 is uploaded.
Now with fluff text :)

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:43 pm 
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No replies? Very good. So the list is ready for playtesting i suppose? :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:30 pm 
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Pretty much ready I'd say.

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Niblebitzer
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:36 am 
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Should brass scorpion have reinforced armour too? It feels kinda weak and fragile for 200pts if compared to other SHTs.
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rpr
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:03 am 
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Comments on 3.4:
- Deamon Pool should not be in Support Formations, Daemons are already quite bad idea... Just add as 'out of list thing'
- 250 for 4 terminators plus Lord sounds cheap. Yes, it is more than in BL, but hey,  4 loyal ones are 350.
Ok, these chaos ones have no ATSKNF but they have Lord (so similar loyal one would be 400 points, that is 150 for ATSKNF).  300 maybe?
- "Red Corsairs Upgrades" section could have the 'max 4 per formation' explanation there, too. Well hidden in general text otherwere...


Otherwise, I like it. But should not there be 'hate' rule, as now you can have specific chaos forces (cult marines, some SHTs) of all major gods..

And I still think that 'strategy roll 6 or 1 modify number of daemons in pool' is unneeded complexition/luck factor.. =]
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rpr
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:10 am 
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And typo spotted. Hell Talon has CC and firefight values.

AND: in Summoning rules, Greater Daemon is 8 summon points but 6 on its datasheet.
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rpr
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:27 am 
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And while I'm at this... maybe it should be 2 support formations per core formation, or more core formations, otherwise the list might be quite limited. This can be found out by doing some test lists, of course..
Maube Armoured Company to core choices?
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Nicodemus
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:45 am 
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2 choices for one core could lead to 5 terminator units and 10 baneblade (15 activations / 3000). No idea would that be efective.

But I would like to see armours in core too.

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zombocom
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:26 pm 
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I definately prefer this list in concept to the standard Black Legion one. It matches the 40k army ideals and units much more closely, which can only be a good thing.

Units like the decimator, death wheel and feral titan are all epic inventions, and pretty much rendered unneccesary by the chaos baneblade/pusblade, brass scorpion and chaos warhound.

Given that the brass scorpion is an original epic invention anyway, and that there is even a model for it if you can find it, it seems daft that it isn't represented in the official epic chaos marine list.

I am definately in favour of an epic chaos list that represents the war engines available in 40k, though adding others is not utterly out of the window.

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Crabowl
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:38 pm 
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I like most parts of this list but there are few things that might I don't like. I don't know Red Corsair fluff enough to know how they're supposed work so these are just my opinions from a game/player point of view.

1. Terminator retinue as a core choice. All terminator plus a few hawks and whatnot is boring. The core could easilly have just the bikes and retinue and then you could take two support formations for each core formation, but so that only one of each support formation types may be taken for each core formation - ie a Retinue could be used to take one Chosen and one Cult Marine formation but not to take two Chosen.

2. Brass Scorpions. There may be fluff reasons to have these but I'd rather just see different baneblades or similar toys for all the other chaos gods. If there are not enough different baneblades for all gods then lose the plaguetoy as well. It just feels odd that the lesser and greater daemons are unified and then super heavies are suddenly split.

3. Chaos Vindicator isn't worth 50, 40 maybe, and it might give incentive to fix that piece of crap in regular marine lists.

4. Lord here and Lord there. They could be separate 25 point upgrades and it would make the formations cheaper if someone doesn't want to take them. Keep terminator formation cost the same though. You could lose RC1.1.6 with this since it could read on the update part.

5. Daemon Pool lacks 0-1? Lesser Daemons seem kinda cheap considering that you can get 5 'assault marines that have traded 15cm speed for invu save' for 100 points. Assuming the daemons stay on the table (the way I read the summoning part) they'd be worth 25 minimum.

6. There's no mention that summoned units leave the table in the end phase, which is a good thing but makes the list really hard to follow as there are references to BL here and there. It's not that hard to copy all the rules and formations from BL list to your list just to make it easier to use. Sure it might save a minute of update time if something ever changes in the BL list but it takes too long to go through each list to make it worth the players' time to use the list. This list seems much better than BL but it would take too much time to 'fight' the lists to ever playtest it.

7. Oblis could easilly lose AA, have 2 x body weapons and cost 75 points. Chaos rhinos have that extra weapon thingy they can buy in 40k? Just fiddle it a bit so you can upgrade one or two rhinos with some AT5+/AA5+ for 25 points each. Even at 100 points oblis still wtfpwn the air and they can't be even singled out like many other AA weapons can be.

8. I don't understand why titans are suddenly inspiring (might be some fluff thingy)

9. RC1.1.4. Lose this

10. Free Chaos Warlord. Is there some fluffy reason why every chaos army must be led by a warlord? There's one for orks but..

11. Chaos Battle Barge. There's no point listing this as nobody has ever used one in the core lists.

12. Augment Summoning. There's reference to BL Summoning Units here and RC has Summoning Units of its own. Confusing anyone?

13. Daemonic Focus. The ability to keep any summoned units on the table is brought up here for the first time instead of in Summoning Units. Confusing anyone?

14. Example at the end of special rules: The core and support sections make it so that the player doesn't start 'her' army creation by purchasing a daemon pool - too much copy paste, some changes and suddenly there's no telling how anything is supposed to work.

I know a lot of these apply to BL as well. Anyway, if you have too much time this could be a great list, just make it separate from the BL list and add all the missing data sheets.

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