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CLose combat weapons
ragnarok
 Post subject: CLose combat weapons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:25 am 
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I've had a few games against AMTL and Tech guard with AMTL support over the past few days and I am wondering if the titan assault and close combat weapons are too strong.

I used my own list, which has its weapons from E&Cs modular weapons costing, but the other lists  (bar crabowls) are all similar in stat lines.

Basically, I was cautious about engaging a Reaver with chainfist and powerfist in combat with any of my titans.

It was able to pump out
6 normal attacks, 6 MW and 3 TK(D3) attacks, under mine and AMTL lists
6 normal attacks, 5 MW and 3 TK(D3) attacks under Chroma?s list
6 normal attacks and 6 TK(D3) attacks under TRCs list
6 normal attacks, 4 MW and 2 TK(D6) under Blargs list
6 normal attacks, 2 MW and 1 TK(D3) attacks, under Crabowl?s list

Compared to the 6 normal and 2 TK(D3) attacks that a Hydraphant gets.

I know that the Reaver costs about twice as much as a Hydraphant, but it also can be armed with a reasonable ranged weapon, and has void shields, so it takes time to start damaging it.

I think that everyone?s bar Crabowls stats are too powerful and Crabowl?s are just a bit too weak.

I am thinking that
chainfists should be + 3 MW attacks
powerfist should be +1 TK(D3+1) attack.

The wrecker could be +1 TK(D3) first strike
or even +1 TK(D6) first strike, may only be used in the first round of combat.

So has anyone else felt that titan closecombat weapons are too powerful, or am I being anal wanting the nids to be the best CC fighters around? :D

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: CLose combat weapons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:51 am 
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Caveat first: I am still at the early stages of testing with the AMTL and am only looking at TRC list for building lists.

I agree that they are very powerful, but would consider that as you have looked at them they are also very limited in their battlefield role.

A Reaver with two CC weapons is primarily interested on getting an engagement off and more specifically into base to base contact.

These two weapons are of no further use in any other situation (TRC stats, not sure about other lists). From my point of view the Reaver has to be aimed at the largest / most expensive formation on the table and marched towards it to engage the following turn getting as many units in base to base as possible so that the extra attacks can be used.

(Just thought that the Handbook rules allow for all attacks to be allocated to units within range and negates my argument above - One reason why I don't like the new engage rules ?:;): ?)

As an opponent facing a Reaver set up like this, I would avoid it like the plague and even throw sacrifical formations of scouts at it to block / harass the reaver. Even more so under the Handbook rules.

So yes very nasty, but very specilised.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: CLose combat weapons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:21 am 
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I surpose that they are highly specialised, so you know what they are going to do and can aim to stop it, with expendable troops.

Maybe it is just because I have been playing against them with nids, who have to close and engage.

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Markconz
 Post subject: CLose combat weapons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:53 am 
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As Hena says, Change Documents/Handbook is:

3.3.2 Close Combat and Firefight Attacks
"Instead of rolling a single hit dice for each war engine in
an assault, roll a number of hit dice equal to the war
engine?s starting damage capacity. You may choose to split these between close combat rolls and firefight rolls as you see fit, but close combat rolls will only hit enemy units in base contact, while firefight rolls will only hit units
within 15cm that are not in base contact."


But yes close combat titans are bad news for the bug titan. Mind you it's not good for the enemy titan either (depending on what bio-titan rules you are using I guess).

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: CLose combat weapons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:31 pm 
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Ok, I'll relent on that part of my point as I did not fully understand the rule change. (Still don't like that rule though :;): ).

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: CLose combat weapons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:26 pm 
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I agree that a Reaver armed with two close assault weapons is formidable, but your sacrificing a good deal of firepower to make it a CC monster. I honestly don't think it needs much tweaking.

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Markconz
 Post subject: CLose combat weapons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:35 pm 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Feb. 20 2008,13:26)
QUOTE
I agree that a Reaver armed with two close assault weapons is formidable, but your sacrificing a good deal of firepower to make it a CC monster. I honestly don't think it needs much tweaking.

Exactly, for those points it has to be pretty damn fabulous if you manage to get it to contact.

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