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Reducing choices in the Tau army list
Soren
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:32 am 
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Best would be:
Use of Humies does not allow use of kroot and does not allow vespids.
Use of kroot does not allow use of humies and ..........
Also possible: Use of no garrison units would not allow stationary towers. (which should indicate that a rapid strike force does not sprankle whole areas with towers)

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:51 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 16 2008,01:01)
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I wouldn't remove Kroot and Human completely as people have already built their armies, which would invalidate parts of it. Just Vespids and keep the new downgrades on use of Humans.

Hena, you didn't read my suggestion all the way through - go back and you'll see I agree with you.

...although I am glad everyone else likes my idea! :D Think how simple the Tau list will look (and feel) with all the auxiliaries gone.  You can then add them in the same document or (my preference) have Tau Auxiliary lists that are smaller lists.  If done properly those lists might even have the potential to be played on their own (although I am abstracting a lot right now).

Something like this would look good in a supplement... :p

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:14 pm 
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(Onyx @ Feb. 15 2008,23:24)
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As long as all the bits that are available now would be available under the new structure, I think its a good idea aswell.

I would view this as an alternative to dropping any units. If there were still problems then we could re-open discussion on cuts, but I am still broadly not in favour of this.

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Soren
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:05 am 
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Towers still do not fit the list.




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Tooninki
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:05 pm 
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If someone wants to get rid of normal dronewings (75pts activation), just allow them as upgrades.
Heavy drones remain in support! (and uprgades)
As for auxiliary, leave Kroot & Humans, but with no upgrades. So no extra kroot, kroothounds and krootox.
Leave others for those variant lists!
And change Barracudas for 2 fighters!
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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:44 pm 
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Rather than dropping stuff from the list altogether I would suggest moving stuff into the collectors' section - this would solve any tournament balance issues people might have with the list whilst still giving people the stats and points to use these units/models in 'normal' games.

Just a thought...

Orde

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Shadowsword
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:24 pm 
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It's moving, thanks for so many replies and discussion!

Moscovian's suggestions are good, cause they call for more structure.

The discussion is now mostly of dropping units, which gives some reductions, but is not the only way. I suggested reducing upgrades. The upgrade part on the tournament list is still crowded and allows uncountable many different formations. I'd like to see more comments on thit part.

Here my comment on the dropping of units part: What to do with all the different fliers. The new Tigershark AX-2-2 variant is available this month, together with the new Remora drone fighters and the drone mines. We have already too much aircraft options.

One way to deal with them, would be too put all the different aircraft in a
Auxilliary Force (like Drones in Moscovian's suggestion), and only leave one
fighter (Barracuda), one bomber (one Tigershark-type) and one transport (Orca) in the Aircaste part of the Third Phase Expansion Force list.
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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:24 pm 
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The upgrade part on the tournament list is still crowded and allows uncountable many different formations. I'd like to see more comments on thit part

And comments you will get ... :D

Why does "uncountable Formations" matter? There's still only a finite amount of formations you can take on the table. What does it matter what's in them? As long as the points equal your opponent's then there really shouldn't be a problem.  I've always found mixed formations are not as good as dedicated unit-type formations anyway.

What to do with all the different fliers. The new Tigershark AX-2-2 variant is available this month, together with the new Remora drone fighters and the drone mines. We have already too much aircraft options.


Leave them out of the list. This is my personal choice. Otherwise, again, what does it matter? You can only take so many aircraft in a list. You are forced at some point to choose which you will take....

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illuvitar
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:36 pm 
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i'm completely against dropping things, dont you people realise i JUST finished painting my tau ! just stop .... please :( :(

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:01 pm 
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Illuvitar, I sympathize - the auxiliary block idea should certainly keep ANYTHING from being dropped though while keeping the list under control.

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:28 pm 
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Dont worry. Dropping units will be a last resort. Compartmentalising the alien auxiliary formations should not invalidate any force selections or models.

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illuvitar
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:30 pm 
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Leave them out of the list. This is my personal choice. Otherwise, again, what does it matter? You can only take so many aircraft in a list. You are forced at some point to choose which you will take....

why even leave these off ? the new models are cool ! and dobbsy is right, the limit of 1/3 army on arcraft is what matters, and if you want to compare number of choices for that 1/3 you have to remember to include all the titan types other races have, but again why should the number of unit types matter ? should we drop tyranid hand to hand types because the army list has lots to choose from ? limiting the types of units that can be taken in an army list only tends to force army lists from different races to be more predictable, this makes the game more predictable and thus a LOT less fun !!! o.k. i'm deffinatly starting to rant now, :) later

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Reducing choices in the Tau army list
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:23 pm 
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I'm definitely against the idea that fanmade models should go first (and not just because the Stingray is my baby!).  As CS said, the fanmade models are often put in to cover a capability gap that does not exist in 40k (Stingray is between a Whirlwind and a Manticore, and fills the long-range "artillery" role that Tau flat-out don't NEED in 40k, but desparatly needed in E:A)

Similarly, the sentry towers actually are a Forgeworld creation for the Taros campaign, where they were used something like a minefield, guiding in seekermissile strikes from outside the imperial's counter-attack range.

Vespid are a GW invention that are a faster-moving version of Kroot, and intended to fry power-armor at close range (where a Tau-centric force tends to get it's butt handed to it), although the execution in 40k leaves some serious issues (Vespid are a one-shot weapon, and will not survive the return fire and charge from the Marines).

And finally, we're just going to have to suck up a lot of air support, since FW created Aeronautica Imperialis.  This means that FW is going to keep making new air support for every race, not just Tau.  (Although the current discussion is to make the Remora stealth drone fighters Collector's Models, last I checked).

Mosc:  Sir, I salute you!  that has to be one of the better ideas I've seen for cleaning up parts of the Tau list.

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