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Necron 4.4.1
zombocom
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:41 pm 
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While your point about monoliths needing to come in formations, I disagree that necrons should ever be an army that doesn't rely on them.

Necrons simply can't just deploy and march the infantry up the table, they'll always lose if they try that. The basic stats of a necron are worse then a marine, with basically no ranged shooting, and marines get transports. Infantry without transports are dead meat, and so it is for necrons. The portal usage is how the army works, and how it should work, it just needs some balancing.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:52 pm 
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(Magarch @ Feb. 11 2008,14:30)
QUOTE

Nobody loves the Necrons more than the French - your opinions are certainly worthy of discussion. :;):

I actually agree that the Necrons should be able to be played without the Monolith, but perhaps with a variant list.  The standard Necron list IMO should have Monoliths as their staple.  This of course brings me to your other point...

I don't understand why the army allows to take a formation of one armored vehicle. I understand that in the beginning, it was designed to be a war engine but now that its category has changed, wouldn't it be more logical to force the player to take at least two units in this formation ?


I haven't been around since the very beginning but my understanding was that the Monolith was NEVER a war engine.  I could be wrong but I seem to recall this conversation with Corey some months ago.  With that said, some people have already suggested making a mandatory Monolith formation of X units.  Other people complained that it would force the Necrons to play in a very specific fashion.  The point changes help both groups of players compromise since it is still possible to field lone monoliths but it can't be done inexpensively (the big complaint).

Good thinking though - I feel your pain on wanting the list to be balanced and DONE, especially after converting 7000 points worth of models.  :O I really do feel though that we are close.  If we just left the recent point changes and destroyer changes I think it would be slightly overpowered, perhaps where the Eldar were when Biel-tan was first released.

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Soren
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:56 pm 
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It was WE 2DC? As I remember right this is back years....

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:11 pm 
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The point is that monoliths simply shouldn't be war engines. They should definately be AV, but need costing and formationising (I know it's not a real word) appropriately.

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Magarch
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:24 pm 
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In fact, I think that most of the suggestions are going in the good way. I like the changes on the destroyers and I think that the ideas about the wraiths are interesting enough (though I don't see why they are fearless, but that's detail). There is good work done so far, and there is still some to do.

Still, the complains are about the Monolith and how easy it is to have plenty of activations with the necrons by minimaxing their formations. I have talked a lot with friends about this, and the reason of allowing the Monolith to be taken alone as a formation is lost to us.

75 points a Monolith is a fair number, even though it's still a bit low for such a resilient unit. The trouble is, 75 points a formation is unreasonnable. Increasing the base cost while decreasing the support one raises in fact more questions than resolving them. The true question is ; why wanting at all cost a base formation of one Monolith ?
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zombocom
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:29 pm 
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The reason the playtest rules are currently keeping the one monolith as a formation option is simply that we haven't playtested them with multiples in a formation yet! If it turns out that they are more balanced in multiples, a future version of the list may remove the option to take them singly.

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rpr
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:35 pm 
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Hm, 3 monoliths for 225. Optional 0-3 Obelisks available.
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zombocom
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 pm 
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Quite a possible future formation, but we need to test out the viability of multiple mono formations first.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:48 pm 
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Agreed - I am still a little concerned that it provides more resilience than it needs.  I am looking forward to trying to break it. :)

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:51 pm 
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wait, I have Fearless on Wraiths?!

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Magarch
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:53 pm 
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(corey3750 @ Feb. 11 2008,20:51)
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wait, I have Fearless on Wraiths?!

Erm, well yes, at least they have Fearless in your 4.3 version. They shouldn't have ?
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tv1013
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:56 pm 
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(corey3750 @ Feb. 11 2008,15:51)
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wait, I have Fearless on Wraiths?!

Wraiths have been fearless as far back as 4.1 in the PDFs I have ???  Surprise!   :D
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Chroma
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:06 pm 
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Monolith... "mono" means "one"...   :D

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:09 pm 
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(corey3750 @ Feb. 11 2008,20:51)
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wait, I have Fearless on Wraiths?!

I'm properly tempted to .sig this. :D

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Necron 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:58 pm 
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(corey3750 @ Feb. 11 2008,20:51)
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wait, I have Fearless on Wraiths?!

I think we are over working Corey.

He was shocked when he realsied that Obelisks had scout.

Now fearless wraiths.

Still I like where the list is going.  I remember facing it several iterations ago, when the orb had 2 TK(D6) slow firing shots.  My bio titan spent the game hiding behind a hill, before it got fried and smeared across the entire board (heck the thing did enough damage to kill a shielded Reaver).

Keep up the good work, and take a break.

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