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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA
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Thought I'd forgotten again, eh?
(Hena @ Jan. 23 2008,12:45)
QUOTE Alternative Hell Talon & Hell Blade stats for a section of their own?
Not touching these myself. If BL changes the fighters, then consider them automatically changed for this list too. Don't really want to be concerned with this.
My current proposed change list is as follows:
a. Retinue 275, Havocs 350, Bikes 325
b. Questor 275, Subjugator 225
c. Debaser 2x ultrasonic attacks, no blastmaster, FF 3+
d. Land Raiders 85 (as transport upgrade +70)
I'm still not convinced about the Debaser, but the others are noted.
Also I have been using SR4/d6 for a while.
And new flier tests, but that is general chaos change.
Yep.
For other changes: I'm not familiar enough to comment on that if the transports/land raiders and legionnaires should be fearless in EC army.
Okay, Fearless is always going to be a sticking point.
My main reason for Fearless is simply the Mark of Slaanesh - the MoS has always, since Realms of Chaos, given some form of immunity to psychology. Now, GW has gone and confused matters considerably now that the Mark of Slaanesh gives +1 initiative not Fearless (something that annoys me far more than anything to do with toy soldiers really should!).
But nevertheless, unless we start shoving First Strike all over the place (which would seem quite artificial), I wanted Fearless to be the hallmark of the list.
If they could be fluff-wise, then I'd remove fearless from Legionnaires and make them 'fresh chaos scouts' (200 for 6 maybe).
Well, with the Mark of Slaanesh you'd think they'd be Fearless, but then Infiltrating Chosen aren't Fearless in 40k any more. So who knows!
Would people prefer 6 Fearless units, or 6 normal units with Scout?
If fearless could also been removed from transports then 30 for 3 rhinos and 75 per transport (or +65 for upgrade) I guess.
Quite aside from the thematic principle of Fearless, originally the rhinos were NOT Fearless. I changed them to be Fearless because there was a repeated complaint that the EC retinues would loose their Rhinos very, very quickly and get stranded on foot.
If I'm going to change them back to not being Fearless, I would need some convincing. I don't think you'd like it.
Scout titans in singles costing +25. All are eager to get this done with marines, so it also has to be done in all other lists. Else the marine change is not worth a penny.
I'll implement this as necessary. For the time being, I'll stick to the LATD costs. Petition for the LATD to be changed, that's the parent list.
2nd) Please drop fearless scouts.
Okay!
If you want to make the EC cheaper, make the units worse not better. I do not see the point why they should have FF3+. 5 Marine also host special weapon and heavy weapon and they bring on the same firepower as 5 Noisemarines with 1 Blaster.
In 40K?? Noise Marines can pump out anywhere between two and three times as much firepower under the right conditions. Noise Marines just are better at shooting than tactical marines!!
Drop the fearless. I have no problem with the Termies getting fearless as they are the Elite of the Elite, but normal Chaos marines should not be fearless at all. I do not know who brought this up but I am really eager to slap him with a rulebook for that idea (hopefully he does NOT like it  )
That would be me, so the rulebook slap should come my way. Not a massively convincing argument there, mind. See above about the Mark of Slaanesh. I'm willing to consider Bezerkers or Plague Marines to be non-Fearless, but I really think the Emperor's Children should be.
If you can put something together Lord I then we can spend the next couple of months testing this list and seeing if the revised costs are now too cheap.
Okay. I'm a little leery of lowering points costs but we can give it a go.
My original proposal would be to change the core formations from pure special marines to 50% special, 50% regular space marines.
I don't like this idea. If that's what you want, you could simply play a Black Legion army with slaanesh-marked formations. This list needs to be different! In my view, this list is for die-hard sonic-obsessed Slaanesh freaks. It should be substantially different from the Black Legion! This list not only represents an Emperor's Children warband, but a particularly Noise Marine-orientated one at that. While I'm happy to include regular Slaaneshi Marines in there, they're not the focus of the list and should have a specific role.
Anyway, how much upgrade Lord Inquisitor is about to do?
There is two paths: bigger rework (mixed formations, dropping and adding units in list etc.)
or some little changes to point costs and units.
The answer, unsurprisingly, is the smaller rework if possible.
Obviously I'm going to be resistant to really sweeping changes. Unless you come up with something outstanding that I've never even thought of, the list is this way because that's what I think is best.
But I try not to let that feeling sway my judgement - I'm going to consider every suggestion. If we need to rewrite the list, I'm prepared to do it.
That said, the list does seem to work. I've not had any reports that indicate that the list as a whole is unbalanced. The all-Fearless thing doesn't seem to be something that is really as much an issued as I had feared... So, on the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" principle I'd be keen not to change too much.
and all EC Rhinos to standard non-fearless ?(10pts each).
rpr, if you want to playtest this, be my guest and let me know how it goes. However, I made them Fearless after my own playtest experience and others showed that as soon as the formation breaks, the rhinos tend to evaporate.
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