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Tyranid 8.4 vs AMTL vs IG : Batrep

Rahan

Post subject: Tyranid 8.4 vs AMTL vs IG : Batrep

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:07 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:48 pm
Posts: 20

Last night we played a 1vs1vs1 game and my nids confronted AMTL and IG. I used the Markconz Variant, with the auto rally rules (I saw it has been a bit discussed but I didn't want to confused my poor enemies too much with blah)

So it was 4000 point each side and we arranged a bit the objectives to make the 3-way game interesting. I won't discuss them in this topic since I want to comment the game and markconz variant.

So, I had
3 warriors + 8 Termagants + 8 hormagaunts
3 warriors + 8 Termagants + 4 hormagaunts
3 warriors + 4 Termagants + 8 hormagaunts

1 winged tyrant + 2 warriors + 4 Termagants + 4 hormagaunts + 3 Haruspex/malefactor
1 winged tyrant + 3 Haruspex/malefactor + 2 exocrine

1 Harridan + 2 Trygon
1 Dominatrix + 2 Hierodule (one of each)

1 Hydraphant
6 Lictors
8 Genestealers
1 Brood Nest

The AMTL player played 1 Warlord (SC), 1 Reaver, 4x1 Warhound, 1 team of paladin, 1 team of crusader, 1 ordinatus Mars

The IG player played a squad of infantry in chimeras with SC, a battery of 9 manticores, 13 Leman russ, 2 deathstrikes, 3 baneblades, 1 superheavy with MW2+ TKD3 (which i forgot the name), a warlord and a warhound.

I won't detail too much the actions between the AMTL and IG, I'll just try to focus on facts that impact directly the Nids.

Setup :
The three
Due to table restriction (180x120cm) we were a bit packed in our zone. We tried to set-up our formations as much as possible 90cm away from each others, but we weren't rigid on this rule.

So, Turn 1 : Strategy : AMTL/IG/Nids

Even if i'm crowded in my side, I tried to put some spaces between units, since there is a lot of big barrages (4BP MW, 6BPMW, 10BP disrupt and 18BP disrupt/reload). Hopefully i didn't take them all (3/4) and they broke a formation of gaunt (2 warriors and 7 gaunts lost) and the hydraphant. The first fall back when the second take cover while moving a bit.
I also loose the harridan, which was my only very fast unit. And the genestealer are wiped out by the leman russ formation.

The other guys take some losses but, the 2 deathstrikes and little more.

I spawn back the 7 gaunts.

Turn 2 : AMTL/Nids/IG
The Lictors teleport in a bunker near the crusaders. They are assaulted by the paladin, but they are too far away for me to counter-charge them so i stay in the bunker. On the 16 or so attack (support fire included), half hits and none kills (cheers to the Invulnerable save). I win the assault with the 2D6... Good game lictors.
They are then attacked by a warhound, which kills 2 with its flamer and they eventually kill a crusader and win this assault.
Then I keep and I have the choice between assaulting the 13 leman russ or 1 warhound with a big gaunt unit. I choose the warhound, since if I destroy him in one turn their won't be any retaliation. Hopefully I kill it (6 hormagaunt and 1 termagant) but the few living hormagaunt are too far away from my warrior so they go to ground. The Leman russ eventually retaliate and wipe out all but one warrior.
I march with a lot of units to be in good position for a turn 3 massive assault on the leman russ and chimeras, on the bet that I'll win the strategy over the IG.
The Dominatrix don't want to move so she shoots without doing much.
The tyrant with malefactors and exocrine is killed so the rest of the unit moves to connect with the dominatrix.
the Hydraphant March to assault the AMTL turn 3.

Spawning is good, I take full benefit of the brood nest. 15 gaunts or so are back.

Turn 3 :
Cheers, I win the strategy over the IG but the AMTL starts...

So the hydraphant is broken as well as the lictors...

I declare a combine assault with the unit of the tyrant and a big unit of gaunts and warriors. And I contact the leman russ and the chimeras and infantry. More or less, the fight is 1 tyrant, 1 malefactor, 2 haruspex, 5 warriors (FF), 12 horma and 12 terma. On the other side there is 13 leman russ (11 are in CC), 7 chimeras and 13 guards. After killing 6 LR, 2 C and 3 guards, losing only 7 horma, I win the fight by 5. I retreat a bit afterwards, but as usual, one of the remaining units are cleared, this time by the warlord.

On the other side, the dominatrix eventually decides to move but there is nothing big done this turn.

I loose the game with a failed activation of the lonely warrior, which breaks it. I don't control my objectives. I only have the "They shall not pass"... :'(

Turn 3 score:
IG : 0
AMTL : 0
Nids : 1 - They shall not pass

Turn 4 : Or how the AMTL piss all off and the IG win "by mistake"...
IG/AMTL/Nids

The IG player takes the hand and kills the AMTL warlord with its own warlord then he keeps and kills the 2 warriors of my mixed tyrant/warrior unit (The warriors never saved this game).
The AMTL then break the same unit with a warhound, the one that allow the IG to win. I.e. the warhound could have contest one objective, but instead he just sat in the middle of nowhere.
Then the AMTL keeps and try to break my hydraphant, which for once is free to go.
I eventually break the paladin, kills the ordinatus and a warhound, but the remaining two kills my poor warrior which controled my objective.

Final score:
IG : 1 - Defend the flag.
AMTL : 0
Nids : 0

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Rahan

Post subject: Tyranid 8.4 vs AMTL vs IG : Batrep

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:28 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:48 pm
Posts: 20

Now my comment, and adversary comment on the Nids list and its variant (Markconz)

The opportunity to break unit, as any other unit, is very appreciated. The opponent doesn't fear anymore the instinctive assault, and the unit get its double move.

The no-suppression is good, but it's not a change so no comment.

The no-blast in assault is maybe a bit too much. It can be a big bonus sometime and is maybe the least appreciated special rules in my opponents. (Even if it didn't make too much difference this time)

The auto-rally and auto-spawn was welcomed, in compensation of the new instinctive rule. It makes Nids more deadly as they get closer since they will be sure to have an action next turn, but as they will suffer a lot from enemy fire the first two turns, they need this little boost.

No spawning for broken unit is a good thing, but maybe -D3 or -2D3 would be a good option too. So a broken warrior formation would still spawn if far from the enemy or (and) close to a brood nest.

The modified spawning rule is nice, it's a nerf, as spawning would usually be lower than with std list, but it's more in the spirit of the list, IMHO.

However, on the rallying, why is it that all the formation remove the BM AT THE END OF THE TURN? we played it sequentially, as usual and it was as good.

And now, unit speaking,
Lictors are great now, the RA makes them live longer and the loss of the MW is a good thing. Stealthy, deadly, resilient.
I didn't have the occasion to test the aerial spore mine, but loosing instintive is a good thing too, making them scout would have been better.

So, as a general comment, I like this variant. Now I need to test the other twos.

Waow, that's a lot of speaking...

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Dave

Post subject: Tyranid 8.4 vs AMTL vs IG : Batrep

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:04 pm

Hybrid

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 9539
Location: Worcester, MA

(Rahan @ Dec. 28 2007,09:28)

QUOTE

The no-blast in assault is maybe a bit too much. It can be a big bonus sometime and is maybe the least appreciated special rules in my opponents. (Even if it didn't make too much difference this time)

It does guarantee an automatic +1 in assault resolution for the "formation has no blast markers". And really, getting the additional +1 for "enemy formation has more blast markers" is fairly easy to get.

Other ideas have been thrown around, including "Tyranid swarms never count as having more blast markers then enemy formations in an assault". Personally, I'm still not sure on this.

No spawning for broken unit is a good thing, but maybe -D3 or -2D3 would be a good option too. So a broken warrior formation would still spawn if far from the enemy or (and) close to a brood nest.

I think that was the original way of going about it. I found the rolling of an additional die to subtract it from the spawn point total a little tedious though, which is why I suggested the no spawning for broken units.

My line of reasoning on this being the Warrior would be devoting all of its psychic energy to getting control of the brood creatures, not crying out for new ones to join the swarm.

However, on the rallying, why is it that all the formation remove the BM AT THE END OF THE TURN? we played it sequentially, as usual and it was as good.

Hmmm, could you point out where you found that bit? I couldn't find it in the original thread for this variant or the PDF. I normally play the rallying sequentially as well, alternating with my opponent and auto-rallying my bugs. I'm just curious on what bit of text got you confused.

You question did bring up a confusing part of the variant to me, however. In the end phase a Brood Swarm will spawn, rally and then reorganize. I think that could be made clearer in the variant. I'm post something on the variant's thread.

Thanks for testing out this variant, let us know what you think about the others as well when you get the chance. You've reminded me that I'm being tardy with two of my battle reps.

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Markconz

Post subject: Tyranid 8.4 vs AMTL vs IG : Batrep

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:40 am

Purestrain

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand

Hi thanks for the report Rehan

I'm tempted to try without the 'no BM for assault' in my game tomorrow as you're not the first to complain about this.

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Rahan

Post subject: Tyranid 8.4 vs AMTL vs IG : Batrep

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:03 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:48 pm
Posts: 20

The no-blast in assault is maybe a bit too much.

It does guarantee an automatic +1 in assault resolution for the "formation has no blast markers". And really, getting the additional +1 for "enemy formation has more blast markers" is fairly easy to get.

True with the other armies, but quite harder with the Nids. I find hard to put BM on unit, and my opponent knows that bio-artillery should be a primary target. But I haven't tested all the options.

Other ideas have been thrown around,including "Tyranid swarms never count as having more blast markers then enemy formations in an assault". Personally, I'm still not sure on this.

I find this option more balanced

No spawning for broken unit is a good thing,but maybe -D3 or -2D3 would be a good option too. So a broken warrior formation would still spawn if far from the enemy or (and) close to a brood nest.

I found the rolling of an additional die to subtract it from the spawn point total a little tedious [...]

The idea behind the -2D3 is not rolling another dice and substracting it to the first roll, but to suppress dices. i.e. a broken (say -2D3) warrior formation (+D3) close to a brood nest (+D3) and far from the ennemy (+D3) would still have D3 spawning points. Usually, such formation would not spawn at all, since they might not want to fall back to get those bonuses, but they have the option if the great Queen wishes them to.

[EDIT] After reading the comment on the post "evol ot revol", pointing that brood nest and no enemy counts even if the formation is broken, i believe that's an interesting thing.

And the dominatrix could much often spawn back if she's broken.

And it's a bit fluff, since a warrior alone in the plain, with the fighting far away and the proximity of a brood nest could as well calm its gaunts and recruit new ones, which would mostly come from the brood nest.

However, on the rallying, why is it that all the formation remove the BM AT THE END OF THE TURN? we played it sequentially, as usual and it was as good.

Hmmm, could you point out where you found that bit? I couldn't find it in the original thread for this variant or the PDF. I normally play the rallying sequentially as well, alternating with my opponent and auto-rallying my bugs. I'm just curious on what bit of text got you confused.

After re-reading the pdf i found the "During the End Phase before rallying,..." and "After Spawning has been completed any broken Tyranid formations rally automatically and remove all Blast markers." I understood that the spawning and the rallying are out-of-phase and occur both before the rallying of the opponent formations.

The text would gain in clarity if the Spawn-rally-reorganisation was more precise and sequential. The point on the reorganisation in-phase, instead of the current "after rallying is complete", would make it more strategic on the order of spawning.

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Markconz

Post subject: Tyranid 8.4 vs AMTL vs IG : Batrep

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:10 am

Purestrain

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand

(Rahan @ Dec. 29 2007,08:03)

QUOTE

After re-reading the pdf i found the "During the End Phase before rallying,..." and "After Spawning has been completed any broken Tyranid formations rally automatically and remove all Blast markers." I understood that the spawning and the rallying are out-of-phase and occur both before the rallying of the opponent formations.

The text would gain in clarity if the Spawn-rally-reorganisation was more precise and sequential. The point on the reorganisation in-phase, instead of the current "after rallying is complete", would make it more strategic on the order of spawning.

Actually you are correct and this didn't bother me, I quite liked the idea of the tyranids having to do all their spawning before the opponent decides what to do with rallies/retreats.

If it is desired to shift it into alternating phases that is possible. The less exceptions the better I guess.

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