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Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
Markconz
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:18 pm 
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Beta Draft 1.0 up for final checking. Now includes Tau and Whitescars.

Thanks to everyone for your previous editing checks. I think I have now fixed everything people have mentioned. As others have urged, I want to finalise now, and lock it down as Handbook version 1.0 within a couple of weeks. Which will mean no changes for some time. Help in last proofing would be very much appreciated - especially for the Tau who seem to have quite an extensive list... (the 'Greater Good' seems to involve everything but the kitchen sink!).

Re: Tyranids - sorry have made a decision to not to include them this time around.  Apart from the obvious fact that the list really is not in a good state to be included right now, the situation with Specialist Games has changed.  When I started this project we believed that a limited tyranid release might have been forthcoming from Specialist Games February 2008. Now we know it will not, and Tyranids are in the same state as many other out of production races. Hence I have decided to restrict the Hancbook's coverage to the armies currently in production and for sale by SG and FW, and I think that might increase the chances of Andy being willing to host the handbook too.

Ok once again - please, last minute checking is very much required! Thanks again for everyone's efforts to date!

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Chroma
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:00 pm 
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Great work! ?I'll try and go over it in the next couple of days.

First, a suggestion: As Daemons are common units to both Chaos armies, could they be seperated into their own section, so that it would be Chaos - Black Legion, Chaos - Lost and the Damned, Chaos - Daemons?

Second: "Whitescars" is two words "White Scars"; if you're going to "clump" races' army lists together, as done with the Orks, IG, and Eldar armies, why stick the White Scars down at the end of the list?

Third: The "Lost and the Damned" army is actually called "The Stigmatus Covenant (Chaos) Cult".

Last, for now ?:D : If you're going to include Ulthw?, you might as well include the other Craftworld army list, as I'd say they're all in the same state of playtest. ?There may be a few updates being done to them, including Ulthw?, and I'll accelerate that process if you're looking to "lock down" the Handbook for a while.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:25 am 
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Thanks for the corrections Chroma, I look forward to hearing more!  :)

Regarding White Scars and Daemons, it was more a case of just fitting in a very minor list where it would fit (empty space made by Tau lists), rather than adding an extra couple of very empty pages, and having to renumber everything to boot... yes it irked me slightly to have them at the end. Will ponder.

Regarding Eldar... yes I guess it is possible to stick the others in(?), but I'd strongly disagree that they are at the same state of playtest as Ultwhe. From what I've seen of game reports at least as many games seem to have been using Ulthwe as have been using Biel Tan, but I've seen precious few reports with Sam Hainn and Iyanden. Also Ulthwe is much more of a minor list change (you get some 1+ initiative guardians and small aspect troops - woohoo, plus SR5 which is the biggy), compared to Sam Hainn and Iyanden both of which involve some quite novel concepts and units. Certainly MC23 considered Ulthwe much more complete than the other lists before you took over, and it has barely changed since (and nor did it need much changing IMO, it's been used for ages here to no ill effects).

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:27 pm 
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Ulthwe had a lot more testing than any of the other varient lists whilst MC23 and I were looking at them a couple of years back.

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Reddeth
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:41 am 
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Howdy, got some proof reading done on the Tau stuff. Typos/errors as follows:

Tau Units
page 61:
Pathfinder Team, range of pulse carbines should be 15cm
Gun Drone Squad, range of pulse carbines should be 15cm
Vespid Stingwings, armour should be 6+
page 62:
Scorpionfish Super Heavy Missile Gunship, named 'Devilfish Troop Carrier' in error
Barracuda Superiority Fighter, Ion Cannon values should be AP4/AT4/AA6 FxF
Tiger Shark Strike Craft, Twin-linked Ion Cannon values should be AP3/AT3/AA5 FxF
Tiger Shark Strike Craft(AX-1-0), Aircraft Tracer Missiles should be AT6+ Guided Missiles
page 63
Manta Missile Destroyer, Remove FxF from Twin-linked burst cannons and add it instead to the Interceptor Missiles.
page 77:
Hero Orbital Support, 'additional' misspelt.

Enjoy!
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Markconz
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:03 am 
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Awesome Reddeth! Thank you very much.

Squeezing Tau transcribing inbetween writing thesis and a seminar has caused one or two mistakes it seems...  :blush:  

I think I better recheck my seminar before I deliver it to the entire department tomorrow too... :D

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rpr
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:10 pm 
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(Tiny-Tim @ Nov. 28 2007,18:27)
QUOTE
Ulthwe had a lot more testing than any of the other varient lists whilst MC23 and I were looking at them a couple of years back.

Maybe, but they are still better off than Tau or Black Legion... =]

(hm, maybe armies could have some 'stability level' marked to them in handbook...)
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Markconz
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:54 am 
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Good luck to anyone who can get an agreement on stability levels... :;):

Note to self - correct cost of Ulthwe Aspect host to 150.

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rpr
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:16 pm 
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Check these (at least wrong in some version I have..):

- Ork landa fire arcs (no fire-arc for rokkits, I think they originally had FxF)
- Eldar Revenants are 650 for 2  (600 in neal's changedoc)
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Irondeath
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:47 pm 
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Has this been mentioned?

1.12.5, third paragraph:

Each player allocates the hits and make saving throws in the same manner as they would when allocating hits from shooting.


"and make saving throws" - "make" lacks an "s"

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Markconz
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:32 am 
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Thanks for the catch guys.

Status update, I'm extending the deadline for a final version 1 a little, just to make sure this Handbook will be consistent with Neal's change documents, which he will be making a few minor fixes to shortly.

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rpr
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:30 am 
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Hm I just noticed that in Handbook there is addition that an unit gets cover if it is even touching a terrain piece without need for being on it - where does this come from? On my opinion an unit MUST enter and make a dangerous terrain test (if applicable) to get a cover from the terrain - or otherwise we will end up with forest edges, ruins and buildings surrounded by vehicles which are not in the terrain, cannot be seen through it, but can claim cover.
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Markconz
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:44 am 
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(rpr @ Dec. 12 2007,05:30)
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Hm I just noticed that in Handbook there is addition that an unit gets cover if it is even touching a terrain piece without need for being on it - where does this come from? On my opinion an unit MUST enter and make a dangerous terrain test (if applicable) to get a cover from the terrain - or otherwise we will end up with forest edges, ruins and buildings surrounded by vehicles which are not in the terrain, cannot be seen through it, but can claim cover.

Very good point. I'm not sure where that came from come to think of it.  I agree that units should have to make a DTT to claim cover.  This change is also not in Neal's change documents now so I will get rid of it.

Curious - can anyone shed any light on why this change may have been made? I'm having a hard time remembering, and I'm a bit busy to troll through this or other threads to find out.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:42 pm 
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(Markconz @ Dec. 12 2007,06:44)
QUOTE
Curious - can anyone shed any light on why this change may have been made? I'm having a hard time remembering, and I'm a bit busy to troll through this or other threads to find out.

I don't recall either, but it sounds like it's intended for things like infantry huddling next to a building or at the base of a cliff that would otherwise be impassable.  Or perhaps it was intended to clarify that a unit can gain "hull down" cover mods from impassable terrain.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:41 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Dec. 12 2007,08:42)
QUOTE

(Markconz @ Dec. 12 2007,06:44)
QUOTE
Curious - can anyone shed any light on why this change may have been made? I'm having a hard time remembering, and I'm a bit busy to troll through this or other threads to find out.

I don't recall either, but it sounds like it's intended for things like infantry huddling next to a building or at the base of a cliff that would otherwise be impassable.  Or perhaps it was intended to clarify that a unit can gain "hull down" cover mods from impassable terrain.

Hull down status makes sense, in which case the rules should  probably state that the line of fire must cross the terrain for a unit to be eligible for a terrain cover.

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