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Necrons 4.3
hiddenevil
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:32 pm 
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Holy Crap its been a while since i have been here, good to see the necron list is making more progress, now that i have pretty much finnished my hsc i can continue to make more for my epic necrons, allready made another warrior stand and a pariah stand with lord on it aswell as a warbaque, will post pics once i obtain some form of camera since my old one broke.

anyways after reading the list i am dissapointed that to make my army effective again i have to Drop beloved AEonic orb to get strategy rating 3, so i need to get a nightbringer now , shame really cause my orb is really nicely modeled and painted, will get pics of it soon aswell. overall the list is more ballanced.

i shall get some more games in once i built the rest of my army since my local GW store wont let my use the paper cut outs anymore since the manager change.

oh in regards to the supreme commander issue, it says you get stategy rating 3 if your army include one, so as long as hes on your army list you have included one, once he has been destroyed you still have rating 3 as he is still part of your army.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:43 pm 
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(hiddenevil @ Oct. 30 2007,13:32)
QUOTE
anyways after reading the list i am dissapointed that to make my army effective again i have to Drop beloved AEonic orb to get strategy rating 3, so i need to get a nightbringer now , shame really cause my orb is really nicely modeled and painted, will get pics of it soon aswell. overall the list is more ballanced.

Or you could start playing 4000 point games...  :D

Welcome back to the halls of the metallic dead, hiddenevil!

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:20 pm 
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Don't be so locked in on the Nightbringer!  The Deceiver is fun to play with too and the Warbarque Supreme Commander will no doubt give you some flexibility.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:28 pm 
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Typo in Living Metal:

...these weapon)...

should be "...these weapons)..."

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:39 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 31 2007,09:28)
QUOTE
Typo in Living Metal:

...these weapon)...

should be "...these weapons)..."

now you're just nit-picking  :p

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:40 pm 
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Line from Phase Out:

"It may re-enter by teleporting"

Should be:

"It may re-enter the game by teleporting"






Line from Phase Out:

"If no portal exists, or there are
not enough portals to deal with all the off-table formations,
then the formations must remain off the table until a portal is
available for them to use."

Should be:

"If no portal exists, or there are
not enough portals to service all the off-table formations,
then some formation(s) must remain off the table until portals
become available for them to use."








Paragraph from Phase Out:

"Any Necron formation, excluding starships, in the reserves for
any reason (either because it has not yet entered play, or was
broken) is considered destroyed for the purpose of calculating a
Tie Breaker, or the Break Their Spirit victory point."

Would be better phased as:

Necron formations (Excluding starships) which are in reserve at
the end of the game are considered destroyed for the purpose
of calculating a Tie Breaker, or the Break Their Spirit victory condition.


Deleted (I don think it's nessesary but I tidied it up for completeness' sake):
(Either because they never entered the board, or they phased out)




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:42 pm 
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(corey3750 @ Oct. 30 2007,14:39)
QUOTE

(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 31 2007,09:28)
QUOTE
Typo in Living Metal:

...these weapon)...

should be "...these weapons)..."

now you're just nit-picking  :p

I ended up with a ~90% average in my English Literature A-Levels, I can't not nit-pick grammar. :D




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:45 pm 
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This one's an awesome nit-pick.


"Note that only Infantry (mounted or on foot), or Armored
Vehicles with the Walker ability may use portals."

Should be:

"Note that only Infantry (Mounted or on foot), or Armored
Vehicles with the Walker ability may use portals."


Edit: You can also have an optional 'Either' in the brackets if you like. :D




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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:13 pm 
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1.1.1 change "Units may only be returned to the formations that they were originally a part of." to "Units may only be returned to the formations from which they were originally a part."

1.2 change "While subject to disruption from loses" to "losses"


Right now I'm more worried about rules than grammer.  That's what editors are for :p

You may also want to include some clarification if formations with missing units but no BMs can still regenerate units (the 'virtual' BMs).  

It works just like the void shield rule... and unless I'm mistaken it's in there.  But then I suppose I should go ahead and tell everyone water is wet... there's always going to be some fool that will argue about it unless it's spelled out in 50 foot tall flaming letters on the side of a mountain somewhere.

1.1.5 Portals should also allow Light vehicles if indeed you will be changing any units to such status.

Speaking of which, you made no changes to the Destroyers which downright shocked me.  I'm hoping you overlooked this.

EDIT: It looks like Heavy Destroyers were changed but not Destroyers.  Corey, I think you missed something on the edit.  If you are indeed cutting the armament in half you may want to consider changing the point values to 300 for the formation.

I've been avoiding that because Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers just don't fit the definition of a light vehicle.

Here's the thing, I want the formation to be roughly an equivalent of a Predator squad.  So if you take 4 Heavy Destroyers and 2 Destroyers you have roughly the same firepower as a squad of Predators.  A little less range, and a different vulnerability, but basically the same in damage potential.  

Of course if you want to go pure Destroyers you get a formation specialized to sweep infantry... kind of like Dark Reapers, but with 60% of the range and about 70% of the shots in exchange for a little better hitting ability


Warbarque teleports?  Hmmmm...  I don't necessarily disagree with the change but I didn't expect it. Or maybe it was there to begin with and I didn't see it. ???

I didn't touch the Warbarque.  It's just as it was in 4.2

Abbatoir ruins.  You may want to clarify what ruins actually means.  Is it terrain?  Can it be crossed?  Can enemy and friendly troops be placed on it?  Does it provide cover?  Does it block line of sight?

Ruins is a type of terrain listed in the basic rules.  Since it's treated as ruins, all you have to do is look it up in the book to see what it's effects are on the battlefield.

Aeonic Orb.  It is still gross.  BP8 or BP9, brother!  It is the way to go.
Yep, and all you have to do is sacrifice your strategy rating to take it.

Pylon. If you are going to disallow them from claiming objectives, I would change your design notes to simply say such.  By stating that they have no Zone of Control you are going to open up a whole can of worms for assaults (can I pass by it to assault another formation? Can I get within 2cm and simply fire instead of assaulting? Can it lend support? Etc) Personally I think you should just toss this out.  I made a similar call for support craft to not have a ZoC but it was argued quite well that claiming objectives is more than just holding ground.  It is an exertion of force.  In the end I changed my mind.

A ZoC represents the actual area a unit could be in at a given moment based on dispersion (for infantry) or evasive maneuvers.  Pylons don't move.  at all.  ever.  for any reason.  They get teleported, and then sit there, doing their thing.

Now, if you want to sit within 15/5 or 2cm of it, you are more than welcome too.... and then if the pylon's player is smart he just assaults you with his Firefight ability.

I should point out I meant to say that they cannot claim, but may contest objectives.

Lastly, I'd keep that initiative change of 2+ for Monoliths and Obelisks or change the Warriors/other infantry to a 2+.  They'd still be a 1+ on a Marshall order after all.
I hated that change when I made it.  Now, there's too much risk of the army just grinding to a complete halt if you get moderately bad luck on rally rolls.  You'd almost HAVE to take nothing but single monoliths since they odds would be much more in your favor to be able to rally enough portals to keep in the game.  It encourages a popcorn build, and I don't want to encourage it.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:17 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 31 2007,09:42)
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I ended up with a ~90% average in my English Literature A-Levels, I can't not nit-pick grammar. :D

???

congrats... sounds like you just volunteered to be an editor  :devil:

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hiddenevil
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:26 pm 
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i plan to use the nightbringer in order to rip the enemies best unit apart such as a titan or shadowsword unit. i will have a warbaque in my list, but its more of a support unit to me.

besides its really easy to get a nightbringer in epic scale, just look at the GW vampire counts models and grab the reasonably cheap wraith model with the hood and sythe, just green stuff the face as you see fit.

i used to use my orb to nuke the biggest threat every turn while sitting back out of range of the enemy, the job of long range support fire will now have to go to 2 pylons(the second one i am building as we speak), but they break far to easily, i dont mind them not capuring objectives, the opponent wont see them as something that has to be dealt with for objectives, so they will be ignored most of the game.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:41 pm 
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(corey3750 @ Oct. 30 2007,15:13)
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Right now I'm more worried about rules than grammer.  That's what editors are for :p

Grammar. :D

It works just like the void shield rule... and unless I'm mistaken it's in there.  But then I suppose I should go ahead and tell everyone water is wet... there's always going to be some fool that will argue about it unless it's spelled out in 50 foot tall flaming letters on the side of a mountain somewhere.


Yes, you really do need to do this. It's no good calling the community stupid when I've seen four different interpretations on this board alone.

I've been avoiding that because Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers just don't fit the definition of a light vehicle.


I belive they do, and furthermore I believe that Light Vehicle status immediately 'fixes' their overpowered nature, by making them more vulnerable.

Ruins is a type of terrain listed in the basic rules.  Since it's treated as ruins, all you have to do is look it up in the book to see what it's effects are on the battlefield.


The rules should reference the terrain chart on page 18 of the Epic : Armageddon rulebook then. (The Siegemasters list does this for 'fortifications').

I should point out I meant to say that they cannot claim, but may contest objectives. (Pylons)

I'm against this. I've never seen Pylons as being a problem, so I see no reason why they should lose their ZOC and be disallowed from claiming objectives.

Say "no!" to unneeded special rules!

congrats... sounds like you just volunteered to be an editor  :devil:

I'm the editor for the 'Raiders' project, which will include the latest v. of the Necron army list... :D

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tv1013
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:02 pm 
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(tv1013 @ Oct. 30 2007,01:00)
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Regarding the variable strategy rating -- if I take the Nightbringer, but keep it in reserve to teleport in later, is the army still Strategy 3, or only if it is on the table?

Can we get an official clarification on this?  Do I get a Strategy rating of 3 for:

1.  Simply taking a Supreme Commander.  It doesn't matter if it is on the table, in reserves, or dead, I still get a Strategy rating of 3.
2.  Taking a Supreme Commander, but it must still be alive, either in reserves or on the table.
3.  Taking a Supreme Commander, and I only get a Strategy rating of 3 if the Supreme Commander is on the table at the beginning of the turn.
4.  Something else
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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:04 pm 
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light vehicles are Vehicles that in 40k are "open topped".  Essentially it's a vehicle that you can pick the driver out of because he's not completely covered.

Any vehicle unit that has a normal infantry stat line is a Mounted Infantry unit in Epic.  Things like Bike, Jetbikes etc.

LV in Epic are units in 40k that have Vehicle stats and rules and are "open topped".  This includes things like Vypers, Land Speeders etc.

When you look at the Destroyer/Heavy Destroyer stats, they are a normal infantry stat line.  Therefore they are translated into Epic as "mounted" infantry.

I don't know that making them LV, even though that's not proper, will magically fix them, but I'm willing to give it a go and see. ;)


And for the record, I wasn't calling the community stupid, I said there are always going to be fools who will argue about something that basically isn't made blindingly obvious.  And their are.  Just like there are people who will argue some thing just to try to gain an advantage in a battle.  I've run into them more than once, and they are the bane of my gaming existence.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:07 pm 
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(tv1013 @ Oct. 31 2007,11:02)
QUOTE

(tv1013 @ Oct. 30 2007,01:00)
QUOTE
Regarding the variable strategy rating -- if I take the Nightbringer, but keep it in reserve to teleport in later, is the army still Strategy 3, or only if it is on the table?

Can we get an official clarification on this?  Do I get a Strategy rating of 3 for:

1.  Simply taking a Supreme Commander.  It doesn't matter if it is on the table, in reserves, or dead, I still get a Strategy rating of 3.
2.  Taking a Supreme Commander, but it must still be alive, either in reserves or on the table.
3.  Taking a Supreme Commander, and I only get a Strategy rating of 3 if the Supreme Commander is on the table at the beginning of the turn.
4.  Something else

apologies, I forgot to touch on this.

I hadn't thought that bit out, sorry.

There are too ways to look at it I suppose, but if I was going to be realistic, I'd have to say that option 2 is the the most logical one. :)

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