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Experimental Weapon

 Post subject: Experimental Weapon
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:15 am 
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I'm new to these forums (And somewhat to BFG) so this is my first post here. Recently I came up with a new weapon which I thought might be fun to have in BFG. I've made some rules for it and thought you guys might want to see it and then I can get some feedback.

Electron Flux (ELF) Cannon/Ion Streamer
The cannon varient of the ELF gun functions in much the same manner as its vehicle mounted counterpart (My 40K version) but due to the absence of air in space it can only be used in conjunction with a low-power stream of ions projected to the target which allow the electrons to flow.

The Ion Streamer must hit the target before the the cannon can fire. The Ion Streamer fires as a strength * bombardment cannon which does no damage. For every die which hits, an equal number of dice are rolled for the ELF Cannon.

The ELF Cannon fires as a lance with strength equal to the dice of the Ion Streamer which hit the target. Roll against the armor value to hit as opposed to hitting on a 4+. If the die value rolled exceeds the armor value of the target and hits the hull then it causes an automatic critical hit. Apply non-exceeding hits to shields first if applicable.

*I haven't decided yet what the strength will be, most likely it will be one that gives a minimum of one die against all targets.

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 Post subject: Experimental Weapon
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:02 pm 
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To make your explanation clearer, could you provide an example. I got lost a little (to tired to concentrate.  My computer at work has gone funny, so I'm using someone elses)


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 Post subject: Experimental Weapon
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:26 pm 
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OK, let me see if I have this right... I have the ELF gun (images of Santa loading a thin, short guy into a cannon!). It fire it as a bombardment cannon, with a strength still to be announced. The net result is 4 hits. Instead of applying these hits, which also do not affect shields, I then roll 4 lance shots. It is against a Chaos cruiser, with armour 5+. Instead of a 4+ as normal for lances, I roll against armour, and additionally, I need to roll higher then the armour, in this case I roll four dice and need sixes.

Now, I get a little lost. Suppose I roll 3, 5, 6, 6. What happens?

I would guess that the 3 misses as normal. Does the 5 strike the shield, but would not hit the actual ship? Do the sixes take down the shields?

Any sixes that hit the actual ship, ie are higher than the armour and dont take out a shield, cause an automatic critical.

OK, now my thoughts...

First up, welcome to the game. Second, welcome to the boards.

You should be aware that, in general, Gothic players are reluctant to accept new weapons. New vessels are fine, but new weapons are always criticised. The reasoning being that the three types (ordnance, lances and weapons batteries) pretty much cover anything that you could imagine. Does it throw out something phyisical? Weapons batteries. Is it an energy weapon? Lances. Is it slow and/or manned? Ordnance.

Secondly, your gun is actually going to end up being less effective than normal - not that I have a problem with this. The reaosn being that the bombardment cannon rolls as a normal weapons battery. That means that even with a strenght 8, you will normally roll 5 or 6 dice (although, off the top of my head, I cant remember now if you roll a dice for each point of strength or use the weapon firepower table).

If you roll 6 dice, and need a 4+ (standard bombardment cannon) to hit, you will get 3 hits. Against a Chaos cruiser, which is fairly standard and has armour 5+, with those 3 ELF hits you will get (on average) a single damaging hit, which will take out a single shield!

I like the idea though. But, would you need the ion storm? Would the gun not actually be more effective in space, where there will be almost dispersion on the electrons or other impacts on the way to the target?

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 Post subject: Experimental Weapon
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 2:00 pm 
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The bombarment cannon does use the table as a battery does. It just hits on a 4+ and causees criticals on a 4+ (so no real effect difference against Eldar).


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 Post subject: Experimental Weapon
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 3:19 pm 
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In answer to your questions:
I ?forgot to put in the range which is why it looks like it won't work and to mention that they fire as 2 seperate weapons, not one. The current range is 20cm. The Ion Streamer is required to conduct the electrons directly to target, otherwise they would be attracted to a closer target such as one of your own ships or a nearby asteriod, etc. Also as far as I remember, you need a conducting body to transfer electrons, and since space is a vacuum this means very little or no conduction of electrons to the target. Hence why the Ion Streamer must hit first. As for the mechanics of it, you don't need to roll higher than targets armor, but if you do it represents the electrons going through the armor and overloading electrical systems in the target vessel, hence causing an automatic critical when hitting the hull. For the sake of Shadow Hunter I'll try to explain it in simpler terms. For every Ion Streamer hit (shields don't matter) it will give you one strength for the ELF Cannon, bacause each hit connects a stream of ions from the ELF Cannon/Ion Streamer to the target which allows a direct flow of electrons from the Electron Flux Cannon. Then when you fire the ELF cannon you roll against the targets armor, values equal to or greater then the armor value hit. Those that are greater will cause an automatic critical hit if they hit the hull, so equal value ELF hits are applied to shields first if you can. If the target didn't have shields then you would just hit the hull with all hits. Now for the example. I fire the Ion Streamer at the Chaos Cruiser, and as you mentioned get a 3,5,6 and a 6. The 3 doesn't hit but the 5 and two 6's do. This means the ELF will have 3 strength when firing at the Chaos cruiser. The ELF fires and lets say I get a 5,6 and a 2.
The 2 doesn't hit, the 5 is applied to the shields and since there are no more hits that aren't over the armor value so is the 6. However with the range of the weapon and the strength I intend to give to the Ion Streamer, it will be more likely to get more than just 3 hits and so the ELF will be more successful. I'd give it a strength right now but I don't have access to a gunnery table.

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 Post subject: Experimental Weapon
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 4:59 pm 
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Ahhh, simplicity  :D

With such a short range, who is the ELF cannon designed to be an armament for?  (by the way...ELF? Its not very macho  ???   )  Anyway, I'm assuming you're thinking of something universal.

Now, as it effectively needs to hit twice, I would give it a resonaly high firepower value.  Another option is something similar to the Ork 'eavy gunz, where each hit with the stream grants you two hits with the cannon (you still have to roll to hit, however.)  So you could keep a low firepower then.  I too am without a firepower chart, so wouldn't want to recommend any figures.

You say it causes automatic criticals when you beat the aarmour value.  I'm assuming an armour value of 6 can still be effected on a roll of a 6.

How will this weapon be effected by holo/shadow fields?  I assume on the firepower chart you use with the stream.

Overall, I cant see the weapon being that much different to a bombardment cannon.  The bombardment cannon only has to hit once, treats all armour as 4 and causes criticals on a 4.  I would be interested in which weapon would be more effective. I suspect the bombardment cannon would, especially with its longer range.


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 Post subject: Experimental Weapon
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 7:13 pm 
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I haven't decided yet who it is for, but I consider the short range to be a balancing effect so it retains power at short range (At long range it would be too weak) AND because it's hard to project a low-power stream of ions a long distance without it dissipating or spreading out.

I am going to give it a high strength if I can, otherwise I'll follow your suggestion and go with the double hits. I might have it cause the automatic critical if it gets 6 against a 6 armor ship or not, I'll see how the weapon works out in my upcoming test runs first.

I'd say it wouldn't be affected by the fields because the Ion Streamer acts sort of like a laser sight, and since it functions as a battery the Eldar can't save against it. This means that the Electron Flux Cannon can't be saved either because it follows the exact path of the stream, but the Ion Streamer will get column shifts. After all, the Flux Cannon can't hit what the Ion Streamer misses, and the Eldar will often be out of range anyways.

As for how it works compared to the bombardment cannon, the Bombardment Cannon might work better at longer ranges (because it is longer ranged, :D ) but up close the Ion Streamer is very accurate and would hit more, thus allowing the Flux Cannon to get a great deal of hits. The Electron Flux Cannon/Ion Streamer is intended to be a close-up assault weapon like Tyranid Lances (15cm range but incredibly powerful), and it will be very good at escort killing. I also might add some rules for firing at ordinance, because it could be a slighty more effective weapon for killing ordinance then others.

At any rate I'll see if I can do a test run today and if I can I'll post the results.

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 Post subject: Experimental Weapon
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 10:00 am 
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To be honest I think it would struggle more against ordinance.  After all, first the stream would have to hit them, and stay locked onto the target, until the cannon hits them.  Even bombers are fast and manouverable compared to escorts and larger.  I think the stream would struggle to keep a lock on.


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 Post subject: Experimental Weapon
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:38 pm 
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I would guess that the initial stream would be affected by the Eldar Holofields, but that the subsequent shots would not, as the target is tagged. This has sounded like a Tau weapon right from the start!

I would say that a 6 is a critical irrespective of whether the targets armour is 6 or lower. Against ordnance, the stream would have trouble, but then it should anyway so this feels right.

As for how effective it is, it is ok to be worse than a bombardment cannon, especially if it is a common weapon. The new gun does not have to be the most powerful - no matter what GW say!

I would play a few situations with it, and run a stats table to compare it with the bombardment cannon and weapons batteries, kind of a table with the weapons across the top, the strength down the sides and the cells indicating how many hits/criticals against a Chaos cruiser. I would be interested in seeing how it balances out.

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 Post subject: Experimental Weapon
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 4:29 am 
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I'm currently doing a series of test runs with it against every ship type of the original four races. I've gotten through the Imperials and I'll be on to Chaos later tonight. The initial results with the first rules draft don't look good, so I'll probally be pumping up the strength or doing as Shadow Hunter suggested and make each Electron Flux hit cause 2 damage. After I've gotten the weapon to function as I want it to I'll make a comparison test against the bombardment cannon.

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