Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

God specific lists and Fearless

 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:02 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA
Well, that's a very specific issue with the Thousand Sons. The Emperor's Children might well be a suitable list to use to stand in for other Slaanesh-dedicated Marine forces (e.g. Violoators), but the Thousand Sons list represents the Thousand Sons only. Unless the Rubric has been dublicated - and there has been the suggestion that Black Legion "Thousand Sons" units are actually automata created to mimic the Thousand Sons rather than allied units, both seems faintly suspect to me - then the specific Thousand Sons marines are unique to that legion.

I'll certainly wade in here at some point with my views of these things, but I still haven't been able to get my hands on the new Codex yet!






Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:19 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Black Legion "Thousand Sons" units are actually automata created to mimic the Thousand Sons rather than allied units

Huh? In the new Codex there is a Thousand Sons Rubric Marine depicted with the colors and symbol of the BlackLegion on the Shoulder pad and tabbard. But this is because his Cabal has sworn fealty to the BlackLegion.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:32 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:27 pm
Posts: 451
Location: Finland
New 40K Chaos Codex is about Black Legion and Renegades, not True Original Kult Traitors, so it has _nothing_ to do with God specific Kult Legions.

Every Emperors Children is Noise Marine. Noise Marines are Fearles. Every Emperors Children is Fearles.

Every Death Guard is Plague Marine. Plague Marines are Fearles. Every Death Guard is Fearles.

And so on.

I have that codex and it killed 40K Chaos for me. I have always played Kult Lists, I dont want to play with some wimpy Renegade.

_________________
Eradication of Earth's
Population loves Polaris


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:56 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 4311
Personally I like the codex and the way it has moulded together 'heresy' traitors and renegades.

Fealess - Noise Marines, Plague MArines, Thousand sons and Berserkers are all still fearless.

Emperors Children - It is specifically stated that not all EC are noise marines.

Death Guard and World Eaters - all DG are plague, all WE are berserkers. Renegades who become fanatical in their following of respectively Nurgle or Khorne as this is where they can complete the transformation to Plague Marine or Berserker.

So following Henas suggestion for the Epic armylists EC 'retinues' could have a mix of Noise and CSM, whilst WE and DG could have some mix of cult marine and aspiring/supplicant marine - maybe same stats but not fearless or the standard CSM stats

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
re EmperorsChildren: It's true that not all EmperorsChidren are NoiseMarines = using SonicWeapons, but ALL EmperorsChildren are Fearless.




_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:57 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Cheers for the info guys. :)

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:46 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand

(BlackLegion @ Oct. 08 2007,21:22)
QUOTE
But not all Khorne Berzerkers are berzerking all the time. Some must drive the Rhinos, LandRaiders, etc ;)

But are you seriously suggesting they would not be more prone to 'road rage' than the average rhino cabby?  :;):

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:24 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Well they tend to use the Tank Shock maneuver more often than other drivers :D

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:41 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5682
Location: Australia
So as not to detract away from other people's threads, Hena gave the link to this discussion back from 2007, and it appears to still be relevant almost 2 years later.

Now there are all Fearless lists out there, and the ones that are not can have a majority of fearless units.

Is this still an issue as Hena states that it is?

My findings are that All Fearless armies play to a draw or countback. I am yet to see a game where an all fearless army wins the game without the opponent making a serious tactical error that should not have been made.

The problems I find are that all-fearless armies have a greatly decreased activation count, and do not have the sustainability (all round) to go past a full round of combat to effectively secure a game win via objectives. Older army examples usually have different points costs that have since been adjusted to account for the fearless rule and how effective it is.

So what are people's experiences with all fearless armies as a player and opponent, and is anyone able to prove my findings wrong or flawed?

Thanks




_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:47 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:27 pm
Posts: 5602
Location: Bristol
I'm also curious as whether all fearless armies are acceptable/fun/balanced or not, as I'm doing Grey Knights army for my first army and they are all fearless (and mostly teleporting).


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:09 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5682
Location: Australia
Quote: (GlynG @ 25 Aug. 2009, 22:47 )

I'm also curious as whether all fearless armies are acceptable/fun/balanced or not, as I'm doing Grey Knights army for my first army and they are all fearless (and mostly teleporting).

Well that would certainly help them fight a World Eaters army   :;):

I think it is definately appropriate to Grey Knights.  :agree:

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
I think all fearless formations takes a chunk of fun out of Epic and 'breaks' a core mechanism of assaults being decisive.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:07 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5682
Location: Australia
Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 25 Aug. 2009, 23:49 )

I think all fearless formations takes a chunk of fun out of Epic and 'breaks' a core mechanism of assaults being decisive.

That's a nice statement, however quite unhelpful. TRC, are you able to provide more on this?

I understand what you mean, however the more I personally play the lists, the more flaws I find in their use as a player, and my opponents see flaws enough in such armies to defeat them.

It is my continued belief regarding all fearless armies is that the opponent rarely understands the opponent's list, hence gaining an immediate negative feel to them. Like most wargames, know your opponent and the easier it will be to defeat.

Is it merely 'fun' to take pop corn armies as I have seen listed, that may be greatly effected by such armies, or is it only fun when you win as a player. Honestly, my opponent's used to feel that it was not fun at first, yet as games progressed and people faced the list 2 times or more, it then comes back to becoming a game of stratergy.

Is it a fact that actually more games are need to be played with Fearless armies rather than just getting rid of them after people's first experience?

If it is not obvious, I am really trying to get this debated and talked about rather than remain Epic's 'dirty little secret' or something that is just 'too hard'.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:17 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:27 pm
Posts: 5602
Location: Bristol
I agree both of those are definitely appropriate for Grey Knights, I am just unsure yet how balanced or unbalanced that makes the army for play in a tournament environment - I'd like to use the army at Man of Kent's January tournament if he allows the list.

I've not really used fearless troops and certainly not a whole army of them so will have to try them out in battle and see how they do. Fearless troops should be more expensive than other troops so an all fearless army should have an inherent disadvantage there and I'm sure can be balanced and still competitive/fun/balanced regardless.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net